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Dam Busters Channel Four tonight

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Colin Jacobs 102/05/2011 19:36:48
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Who's watching it? I wish I Could make one two keep the yachts off my model boat pond.
ady02/05/2011 23:31:14
612 forum posts
50 photos
Are they going to allow the N word?
 
A lot has changed over the last 60 years.
It's intruiging to watch it happen, to watch the way society changes.
To have lived through it is a privilege indeed. Thankyou Britain.
 
The film by-the-way was shot with the last 5 or 6 Avro Lancasters off the production line.
 
daaaaaa. daa da-da da daaaa, daaaaa daa da-da da da daaaa....
 
Star wars copied the Dambusters:
 
How many guns do you think there are...
I'd say there are about ten guns - some in the field, and some in the tower...

Edited By ady on 02/05/2011 23:36:03

Chris Trice03/05/2011 00:25:48
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They used four lancasters, all Mk 7's, reverse engineered to look more like their wartime configuration with the exception of retaining their post war rear gun turrets. Three of the Lancs had two sets of Squadron codes, different on either side so three Lancs could play the part of six lancs. Only Gibson's AJ-G had the correct serial number, the rest retaining their real RAF serials. They came from an RAF Maintenance Unit and three of them had appeared on film before in the Dirk Bogarde movie "Appointment In London" (less well known but also recommended). More sadly, the lancs were signed off charge and scrapped shortly after the film was completed. Peter Jackson has long been rumoured to be preparing a Dambusters remake using a script written by Stephen Fry and they've got around the controversial 'N' word by calling Gibson's dog "Nigsy" which apparently it frequently was. There were some photographs on the net of a fibreglass Lancaster Jackson had had built and I have to say, it looked very good for a non flying replica.
ady03/05/2011 00:50:20
612 forum posts
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Appointment In London
 
Got that one. Not really any planes in it though, all talk, interesting bomber tactics though.
633 Squadron was the best one apart from the "battle of Britain" which used Spanish Fascist air force Heinkels and British Merlin powered me109 messerschmitts
 
Note the Spitfire type exhausts along the cowling
 
Compared with a PROPER 109
 
Which had an INVERTED V12!!
 
...so the moral of the story is:
the British weren't the only heath robinson nutters on the planet.

Edited By ady on 03/05/2011 01:25:55

ady03/05/2011 01:29:32
612 forum posts
50 photos
I recall various people saying:
 
The German Me 109 had fuel injection!!! it was better !!!
 
...um...actually they had no choice, the engine was arse over tit as far as gravity was concerned.
KWIL03/05/2011 08:42:55
3554 forum posts
70 photos
Last night's presentation was "an attempt" to show what happened and with the good skill (in daylight) of the Canadian pilot achieved what they set out to show, namely that Barnes was right and that they could replicate it in some form.
 
Regretably the background "music" if that is what you could call it, was the usual intrusive distraction.
 
Having met Barnes Wallis a number of years ago, I think they failed to show what a brilliant but self effacing man he was, his regret at having sent those brave aircrew to their deaths as he saw it, weighed heavily upon him.
David Clark 103/05/2011 09:40:23
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Hi There
One of the bombs is at the Ringwood Town and Country Experience in Hampshire.
 
 
I was quite surprised how small it was.
regards David

blowlamp03/05/2011 09:51:08
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1618 forum posts
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Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/05/2011 09:40:23:
Hi There
One of the bombs is at the Ringwood Town and Country Experience in Hampshire.
 
 
I was quite surprised how small it was.
regards David

 
 
 
It would certainly be an experience if anyone set it off
 
Martin.
Geoff Theasby03/05/2011 13:04:01
613 forum posts
17 photos
There's also one at Kelham Island Museum in Sheffield, and also at East Kirkby Lancaster Museum in Lincolnshire, where some of the Ch 4 programme was filmed.
 
Regards
Geoff
Clive Hartland03/05/2011 13:32:12
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2820 forum posts
40 photos
The size of the 'bouncing bomb' is not really a problem, the hydrostatic effect of the bomb going off under water against the dam wall and using the water as a backstop enables the shock wave to disrupt the wall.
I doubt the bomb was meant itself to destroy the wall but to loosen or crack it so that the weight of water behind it would then break it down, which it did!
Explosives and water are a potent combination and can be used to do metal forming against a die and make intricate shapes difficult to do with a power press.
When I was stationd in Germany I visited a power station below the wall at Mohne dam, there I spoke to an old operator who was there when it broke and he said that the disruption was only for three or four days as power was diveretd from other areas to carry on production in Wetter where Demag had a big factory.
There is very little evidence of the dam being damaged and it was all rebuilt.
 
Clive
Tony Jeffree03/05/2011 13:50:53
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499 forum posts
11 photos
Posted by Clive Hartland on 03/05/2011 13:32:12:

When I was stationd in Germany I visited a power station below the wall at Mohne dam, there I spoke to an old operator who was there when it broke and he said that the disruption was only for three or four days as power was diveretd from other areas to carry on production in Wetter where Demag had a big factory.
There is very little evidence of the dam being damaged and it was all rebuilt.
 
Clive
Yes...it would seem that the real value to the allied war effort was in boosting morale (and demoralizing the Germans) rather than in the actual damage caused.
 
Regards,
Tony

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 03/05/2011 14:07:36

Mike03/05/2011 14:59:56
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Wish I'd caught up with this thread earlier, then I wouldn't have missed the programme. The subject is of special interest to me as my late father was sent to 617 Squadron to help prepare the Lancasters for the Dams raid. He was an expert on aircraft electrical systems. Anyone know if it's likely to be repeated?
At present 617 is based at RAF Lossiemouth, only a few miles from my home. Tornados don't sound as good as Lancasters!
John Stevenson03/05/2011 15:11:08
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Moderator
5068 forum posts
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Watch on your PC.
 
John S.
Tony Jeffree03/05/2011 15:20:38
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499 forum posts
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Posted by Mike on 03/05/2011 14:59:56:
The subject is of special interest to me as my late father was sent to 617 Squadron to help prepare the Lancasters for the Dams raid. He was an expert on aircraft electrical systems.
Mike -
 
Your father may well have known one of my uncles in that case - he worked in Barnes Wallis's team.
 
Regards,
Tony
Mike03/05/2011 15:49:44
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713 forum posts
6 photos
John: Many thanks for the link.
Tony: It is possible that my father and your uncle met up while 617's aircraft were being prepared, although dad had no formal links with the Barnes Wallis team. He spent his war with No.1 Signals Squadron on an incredibly long tour of RAF stations in the UK, testing and fitting new developments in radio and navigation aids mainly. He was one of the first RAF personnel to be seconded to work with the Americans, to fit RAF-compatible radio into the incoming B17s. Also fitted communications systems into Winston Churchill's personal Liberator. He died in 1974, and I am always sorry I did not ask him more about his wartime service.
After his death I found some of his sketches of Lancaster wiring diagrams, which I gave to the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight in the late 80s. Their Lancaster often used to fly over my home when I lived in Lincolnshire, and when I handed over the drawings I jokingly suggested that as a reward they could fly the Lanc over my house low enough to make the roof slates rattle. Some weeks later it did just that. I am sure it was a coincidence rather than a deliberate act, but it was a wonderful moment!
Chris Trice03/05/2011 23:41:25
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1375 forum posts
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There's also one of the test bombs that was dropped at Reculver on display at the Brenzett aircraft museum.
 
Incidentally, if you look closely at the film, many of the background aircraft in the distance on the ground are Lincolns standing in for Lancs.
Ian S C04/05/2011 13:21:29
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
The bomb its self was the small bit, after the frame for mounting the bomb and the motor to rotate it was in place. Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 04/05/2011 13:22:55

John Olsen04/05/2011 20:11:40
1250 forum posts
94 photos
1 articles
Ady, A few minutes thought should tell you that you can use a float carburettor on an inverted engine, provided of course that you remember to mount the float chamber the right way up. I beleive this was done on the Tiger Moth for instance. So they didn't have to use fuel injection on the 109s, but it was an advantage to them since they could perform negative g manouvres without losing power. Fortunately they still lost.
 
You do have to watch out with inverted cylinders if you get them flooded, the plug will tend to stay wet. The lubrication system also needs a redesign when you invert the engine.
 
regards
John
Andrew Johnston04/05/2011 20:26:14
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6602 forum posts
701 photos
I can confirm that the Tiger Moth has a standard float carburettor.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
Ian S C05/05/2011 12:39:52
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
The DC-2 prototype crashed on take off, when the nose came up the engines stopped. It was cured by turning the carburettor around 180 deg, so that the float hinge was open instead of closed. Ian S C

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