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ady11/01/2011 01:33:15
612 forum posts
50 photos
I reckon I know why the TSR2 got canned.
It was too advanced, so there was no export market to secondary countries, so it was going to be a huge loss maker because overseas markets simply could not be allowed to get their hands on the technology.
Even on one engine it could out accelerate a lightning.
The same kind of thing happened with the exocet.
The subsonic version got sold to places like Argentina and Iraq, and the French had a supersonic upgrade planned for the missile...but it never got developed because any tom dick or harry country with supersonic exocets could potentially zap an entire US carrier battlegroup.
So there was no export market to help defray the cost.
Ian S C13/01/2011 11:31:18
7468 forum posts
230 photos
Had a chap up North somewhere (in NZ), who designed and built a cheap cruise missile, using a home made pulse jet.  The goverment (and I think the US govt) soon put a stop to that, he had some interest from foreign governments.  I think there may still be some thing on Google about his jet powered go-kart.
Ian S C14/01/2011 12:58:09
7468 forum posts
230 photos
     One Thing that bugs me about a model aircraft engine thats widely known, it's the De Havilland Cirrus, surely this is either a Blackburn Cirrus, or its a De Havilland Gypsy/ Gypsy Major, surely if the bloke who made the thing did enough research to build it he must have known its name. Maybe he  has combined parts of the design of both engines in the one, I seem to remember that they were both developed from a WW1 engine.  Ian S C
Ramon Wilson15/01/2011 12:28:42
1074 forum posts
219 photos
Yes Michael I do.
Back in the eighties as much as outdoors my wife and I were keen 'indoor' fliers, indeed it is only in the last couple of years we have stopped attending a local meet in Lowestoft.
We used to go to Cardington but I never made anything lighter than what was termed EZB  and 'Penny Plane' models.  Heavy by comparison to the FID models which weighed the least - a minimum of 1 gram without the motor. These are the type that would fly for an hour or so. Unlike todays ARTF (almost ready to fly) which are so remarkable in their power/ weight/ manoeverability - these models were all hand constructed and displayed some of the most beautiful craftsmanship you could wish to see.
My wife and I volunteered to be time keepers at the 1986 World Champs at Cardington which proved to be one of the most stressful but memorable events in our modelling memories. What could be stressful you may wonder - well from the moment of launch you couldn't take your eye off the model and 40 plus mins is a long time especiallly as once the model is up in the tops of the hangar with several other models they all look the same. Oh yes BTW we still do have the tee shirts
I'm no longer familiar with what is happening today as far as flying at Cardington is concerned but there are many indoor meetings held in sports centres and large halls all over the country - a visit to the BMFA site should get you more information.
Regards - ramon
Ian S C16/01/2011 01:02:05
7468 forum posts
230 photos
   Been looking at Cirrus and Gypsy engines,  The ADC Airdisco Cirrus engine was developed out of the WW1 240hp Renault V8 aero engine when De Havelland wanted a 4 cylinder engine for a light aircraft, this engine required the availlability of war surplus parts for the Renault engines.  De Havelland then desided to build their own engine, starting with the Gypsy I, II, then the engine was inverted to become the Gypsy III, which in turn became the Gypsy Major.  In 1937 Blackburn took over from ADC and continued building the Cirrus.  I did a 100hr inspection of one of these in an Auster back in the mid 1960s.
   So no DH Cirrus engine, yes DH Cirrus Moth aeroplane.  Ian S C
ady27/01/2011 00:42:19
612 forum posts
50 photos
Not as sexy as the TSR2, but currently suffering the same fate as not-so-great-Britain goes doon the pan.
Also realised that with the Ark Royal currently being used as a large buoy 2010/11 is the first time in something like 600+ years that Britain doesn't have a capital ship on the high seas.
Nimrod aircraft scrapped at Stockport BAE factory

Work on the controversial scrapping of nine multimillion-pound Nimrod aircraft is under way at a BAE Systems factory in Greater Manchester.

Diggers moved in to dismantle the empty aircraft behind large screens at BAE Woodford, Stockport, on Wednesday.

Unions have criticised the decision to break-up the planes, which is costing the Ministry of Defence (MoD) £200m.
Unite national officer Bernie Hamilton said: "The lunatics have taken over the asylum when the government orders the Ministry of Defence to break up £4bn worth of world-class defence equipment.

Edited By ady on 27/01/2011 00:42:53

Ian S C27/01/2011 10:39:50
7468 forum posts
230 photos
ady, they should do what the yanks do, they could possibly do it in the same place, stick them out in the desert, and occasionaly retreave one for parts. Our govt's just as bad, the only aircraft carring arms are the P3 Orion maratime rec AC, out strike AC are in mothballs awaiting a buyer, A4 Skyhawks. seem to remember that the last Ark Royal was to be the last aircraft carrier for the RN. Ian S C
Cornish Jack27/01/2011 11:12:09
1196 forum posts
163 photos
MW and Ramon - re. Indoor Flying. we had a couple of enthusiasts in the Brize Club when I was Secretary and I was 'encouraged' to have a go ... Total Disaster!! my efforts were weighable in ozs not grams and resolutely refused to fly. I was finally convinced that this was not 'my game' when we invited ??? Parham to give a Club talk and demo. He had a number of demo models one of which he wound and launched at the start of his talk and nearly an hour later it was still circling at ceiling height with the prop revs easily countable!!
On topic re. aircraft generally, does anyone know of any organisation which would be happy to receive a number of Tech and Perf manuals for Tristar and 747 (Classic and 400). They were kept for possible consultancy work after retirement but that's not going to happen now!! They are mainly A4 size and. as a job lot, heavy, so not easy to move. I specify organisation rather than individual because of the possible security implications. I'm based in Norfolk, which, perhaps, adds to the logistical problems. Any suggestions, anyone, please?
Billy Mills27/01/2011 11:22:28
377 forum posts
Don't think you mentioned the scrapping of the Canadian Avro Arrow. Very much the same story as TSR2, very advanced, very high performance and chopped up including the jigs. Subsequent US purchase to fill the void? Nimrod chopped up - When's the AWACS coming then ?
Ian S C27/01/2011 12:34:51
7468 forum posts
230 photos
It seems that the last of the Mk2 Nimrods were withdrawn March 2010, and 3 RC-135 Rivit Joint airframes from the US govt are to be modified by L-3 Communications Intergrated Systems in USA. The MRA 4 aircraft (9) have been delayed.
The RNZAF gets by with just 6 P-3k Orions, so we'r not too bad after all. Ian S C
Ramon Wilson27/01/2011 13:17:00
1074 forum posts
219 photos
Bill(CJ), that would be Reg (Parham) I guess, a veritable guru in the art of indoor flying.
When Lowestoft 'indoor' first started we had two very experienced fliers attend the first few meetings - Geoff LeFevre and Ron Green. They both had these incredible F1D models but the risk of flying them with all the other sport models in the air was too great and regretably they ceased to attend. Their models were fitted with variable pitch props actuated by the torsion of the motor and though extremely fragile were beautifully built. I have always had a fascination of it and have made tentative inroads in the past - made a load of microfilm once and stored it for several years but never used it. Up the loft somewhere are some rolled balsa fuselage sticks too along with all the other paraphenalia - Oh so many ideas just not enough years.
Thanks for the jog though - I've just spent far too long viewing various sites - just google F1D - you'll see what I mean
regards - Ramon
Ian S C27/01/2011 13:51:38
7468 forum posts
230 photos
Bit about the RC-135s,training in US, 2011 and on, delivery to UK, late 2013 to 2018,. 3 aircraft. The 11 Nimrods are to be replaced with 9 MRA-4 aircraft. Perhaps the old Shackletons, with turboprops, it was a sad (for some)day here when the Sunderlands went,but the Orions do a good job, they cover an area from the Antartic to the Equator.
Saw something about RC aircraft with the motor from a cell phone vibrator, and the phone battery, wing span ? 3-4". Ian S C
AES27/01/2011 17:43:22
85 forum posts
1 photos
To Cornish Jack,
Please see message sent to you re Aircraft Manuals (and Indoor fliers).
AES04/02/2011 21:43:34
85 forum posts
1 photos
Gents (and ladies?),
You may want to try this video link.
If you haven't already seen it (it's from 2009 apparently) I think you'll enjoy it, especially if you like older, "big piston bangers" or even "modern fuel to noise converters" in sexy mil hardware.
You have to cut and paste the URL into your browser (sorry I don't know how to make a proper link, the funny chain thing at the top of the posting window doesn't seem to work for me).
Then when it comes up (it was quite quick on my PC), just hit the red "Play" arrow. Do NOT hit the "ignore the ad" button (otherwise you'll get a horrid double echo soundtrack).
Hope you like it.
Ramon Wilson04/02/2011 23:49:28
1074 forum posts
219 photos
Thanks AES for pointing the way to this excellent piece of film. The short piece toward the end with the veteran in the cockpit should put it all in perspective for us oldies whatever we've been involved with in our early years. Though it would have been nice to have had a bit longer on the flying scenes none the less a very enjoyable short video.
The Bearcat held an attraction in the late sixties when model wise the control line 'carrier event' was introduced at an early Old Warden 'Scale' day.

I built this model for the event whilst working on an oil rig around 1968. The rig toolpusher got to hear about it and came to have a look - turned out he had been a pilot after the war and had flown Bearcats, P51 Mustangs and P38 Lightnings as well. I never attended the event as was on the rig on the day but it was just as well as the model was rather tail heavy and proved extremely difficult to control on the first flight but a substantial piece of lead cured that. The event called for lots of power - originally the airframe was designed for a 1.5cc motor - about 24" span I think but that was an OS40 R/C motor crammed in there
By todays standards it looks very dated but I remember making all the transfers for it using gummed paper and varnish which, at the time, I felt quite proud of - all drawn by hand, no computers to help then eh? It had throttle control and the hook could be dropped to catch hold of arrester wires but I never did get the chance to try that out. The photograph shows its age - it was taken from a slide - remember them?
Sorry about the nostalgia - can't help it I'm afraid - I'm a lost cause
Regards - Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 04/02/2011 23:50:50

Nobby05/02/2011 12:16:07
587 forum posts
113 photos
Hi Andy
My son worked on a Sunderland flying boat down at Calshot the home of the R.J Mitchells racers . to prepare it to be flown to the USA in the 90s Bought by Hermit Weeks .who was going to return it to its wartime livery ie repaint refit guns etc.
Regards Nobby
Niloch05/02/2011 12:33:02
371 forum posts
Could that be Kermit Weeks? See here
Can someone help? I always understood that the Canberra bomber was powered by Rolls Royce Avon engines. Was there an occasion when one was specially fitted with Olympus engines, maybe for a high altitude attempt. When? Which marque of Olympus? Was this the pre-decessor of the Olympus that powered the Concorde?
Geoff Sheppard05/02/2011 14:11:55
80 forum posts
1 photos
One Canberra (forgotten the number) was converted to accept Olympus engines (development versions of the Vulcan type) and took the height record on two occasions.
I was an apprentice in the Development Flight Department at the time of the preparations for the second go. We took masses of equipment off the aircraft, weighing it as we went. Someone reckoned that every pound weight we removed would put another nine inches on the height.
After the engines were started, a couple of fitters quickly removed the Rotax starters because they were particularly heavy. Off she went with only Walter Gibb up, and we all stood about waiting for her return. On landing, no-one could go near, of course, until the Officials removed the recording altimeter to take away for reading.
It was a stinking hot summer and I remember that a real treat after a test flight was to rest our backs against the Plexiglass in front of the bomb aimers position as it staid cold for quite a long time. As long as we behaved and put some real effort in, we apprentices could get away with all sorts of things.
AES05/02/2011 14:12:09
85 forum posts
1 photos
Knobby & Niloch,
Yes it was KERMIT Weeks (weird name!). I saw the aeroplane once, I can't be sure now, but wasn't it mored on the Thames, near HMS Belfast?
And wasn't there also some dispute about whether it was/was not really a Sunderland or actually a Short Sandringham - i.e. built by Shorts from the outset as a pax aeroplane? I forget all the details now, but she is (was I guess) a lovely sight.
Reminds me of being a lad growing up in Kent and driving down to the seaside on the (old) A2. That meant going through Rochester town centre past the castle & Cathedral and over a steel bridge over the River Medway. As you passed over the bridge itself a glance to the right revealed at least "several" Shorts flying boats moored on the Medway near their factory. Looked lovely & shiny white in the sunshine (why was the sun always shining when I was growing up)? That must have been in the very late 1940s/early 1950s. Certainly they had all gone (along with Shorts - the was factory taken over by CAV diesel injection equip) by the time I was back nosing around that area in the late 1960s.
Re EE Canberras. I worked on those for a while. As you say, RR Avons (Mk 200 odds if I remember correctly). I seem to vaguely recall that there was at least one high altitude record attempt sometime in the 1950s by a Canberra fitted with a liquid fuel rocker (could it have been Napier Scorpion)? Perhaps it was a "time to climb" record attempt? And don't forget the US licence-bulit version, Martin B 57. That, along with aeroplanes sold in considerable numbers to many overseas air forces could have been a reason for fitting Olys to at least some, though I bet the US versions were GE-powered. Or how about an experimental test bed? I would have thought the Oly would be a bit over-powered for an "ordinary" Canberra.
I presume you've tried all the usual Google, etc searches? Only other possibility would be the mag "Aeroplane Monthly" who I'm sure must have done an in-depth Canberra Profile by now (they are always well researched and pretty accurate); or there's Key Publishing (I forget the name of their mag), but they have a web site I'm sure.
Let us know what you find out please.
Ramon - thanks for the response. Glad you enjoyed the video. Your Bearcat model looks lovely. Have you still got it? I've seen Carrier Deck contests several times - last time was at the C/L World Champs in France in 2000. Some English people brought the deck over on a special trailer. I seem to remember it's called "HMS Flycatcher" ('orrible pun).
KWIL05/02/2011 15:30:44
3370 forum posts
66 photos
How about Canberra WD952 Geoff ?!

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