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Which New Lathe; choices, choices...

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Terryd12/11/2010 16:50:55
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1936 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Jason,
 
Was that plastic soil pipe you used?
 
Also, I agree with Peter,  I note that Bogstandard has a Chinese lathe (I think), and his work and advice is usually first class
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 12/11/2010 16:53:23

JasonB12/11/2010 17:16:05
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Yes standard PVC soil pipe, have at least two pipes under the plank at any time otherwise they go a bit oval
 
Yes John (Bogs) has the Chester Crusader and 836 Mill
 
 
Have you got your machine yet Terry or are you awaiting delivery?
 
Jason

Edited By JasonB on 12/11/2010 17:16:57

John Haine12/11/2010 21:17:45
4669 forum posts
273 photos
Myford.
Terryd12/11/2010 22:15:47
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1936 forum posts
179 photos
hi Jason,
 
No I haven't taken delivery yet, I'm still waiting for the builders to finish my workshop after a fire earlier this year and Warco are storing my lathe until the building is ready.  I'm really looking forward to taking delivery as I have been without resources since July and am suffering withdrawal symptoms.  It should be completed sometime in December, fingers crossed!
 
Regards
 
Terry
EtheAv8r12/11/2010 22:16:44
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3 photos
"This suggests that it doesn't really matter which is employed if the operator knows what he is doing."  Yes I have to agree...... but I am not an operator who knows what I am doing, I am a beginner.  However the info re the Warco 280V-F is interesting and I shall check it out.....
Sam Stones13/11/2010 02:13:20
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875 forum posts
326 photos

Hi E,

From my experience of almost 65 years, it seems to boil down to :-

"Where should your patience be applied?"

Will it go into the models you make, or into the machinery you choose? I know what put mine to the test.

Anyway, good luck with your choices. I hope you get as much out of your hobbies as I.

Sam

Donald Mitchell13/11/2010 09:34:37
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90 forum posts
3 photos
Hi all,
 
While there has been plenty talk of lathes/mills by all the usual suppliers; ie Warco, Chester, Myford, Emco etc., nobody has mentioned the range offered by the Excel Machine Tool Company of Coventry.
 
I myself have a bit of a possible hankering towards the "Opti D320x630" lathe and wonder if anyone might have any comments for or against it - or any others in their range?
 
Check out the range at
 
www.excelmachinetools[dot]co[dot]uk/
 
Donald Mitchell
Castle Douglas
Bonnie Scotland
JasonB13/11/2010 10:11:36
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They are still basically the same Weiss machines with a different pait job
 
J&L also do the Optimum range.
 
There is also Engineers Toolroom, RDG and Amadeal for the 280 lathes.
 
Jason
KWIL13/11/2010 10:36:47
3553 forum posts
70 photos
Terryd. the Harrison M300 weighs in at 583Kg
Terryd13/11/2010 11:53:21
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1936 forum posts
179 photos
Thanks for that Kwil,
 
I never got to weigh then, I must admit I thought they would be heavier with such a great mass of cast iron.  I obviously am not much good at estimating weights   I thought it would be much more than 21/2 times the weight of my Warco being such a solid industrial beast with substantial stand! 
 
Terry
JasonB13/11/2010 12:40:05
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EtheA, this shows my lathe running at the slowest speed, you can also see the two speed ranges depending on what pully you are running the belt on.
 
 
Terry if you are getting the stand with your lateh you may want to replace the curved panel between the two cabinets with something thats a bit less wasteful of space.
 
Also put some mastic under the lathe feet before you bolt it down through the drip tray, the gearbox does weep a bit of oil that will drip down into the cabinet though it does keep the rust off the tooling in there
 
The feed chart on the lathe does not show any feeds for the "C" range but it can be used to give an even finer cross feed than those shown.
 
And yes before anyone says I have removed the chuck guard mainly because the toolpost hits it when you want to work near the chuck and any faceplate work is impossible with it in place unless you want 6" of tool hanging out the holder.
 
Jason
KWIL13/11/2010 16:20:47
3553 forum posts
70 photos
Terryd, View last pic in My Album to see M300 on its move, same wheel set also moved the Bridgeport, which does weigh in at 1.25Ton!
Terryd13/11/2010 17:32:53
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1936 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Kwil,
 
That brings back memories, although ours was the older Beige sort of brown colour if I remember correctly.  Really great old lathe.
 
Thanks
 
Terry
Bogstandard14/11/2010 11:45:52
263 forum posts
People are refering to what machines I have.
 
Machine choice has to be down to the individual, not following slavishly what advice is given. They should only act as guidelines.
 
Unless you go for second hand machinery, and there is nothing wrong with that if it is a good one, and being new to this sort of thing, if you take that route, you really need someone along to give you experienced guidance. There are people out there out to make a quick buck, and you can easily end up with something that looks good, but would take loadsa cash to get it put right.
 
In the new machine stakes, the far eastern machinery way does allow you to get a lot for your cash compared to European or British machines,  But on the other hand, Euro and Brit ones should be ready to go from day one, and that is really what your are paying for, as far as I am concerned, they are no better than far eastern ones, just the far eastern ones usually take a fair amount of setting up first. If you are able to do that, or have someone to assist you in getting it done, then that is the way I personally would recommend to go.
 
I bought both my machines new, 3 years ago, at a cost of around £6k. But as I warned earlier this year about far eastern price rises, today, that would be nearer to £10k. I could only have just bought one basic new Euro or Brit machine for that sort on money, and they wouldn't be as well specced as the machines I have. The lathe I have done a few mods to, just to make it easier for me personally to use, but the mill hasn't been touched since the day it was sat and levelled on my workshop floor, except for changing a plastic handle for a metal one just after it was settled in, purely for cosmetic reasons, an easily replaced 2 squid bearing because it managed to somehow get a bit of swarf inside it, and the tooling guide pin (a 5mm dog nosed grub screw) in the quill was replaced because a bit of bad tooling got stuck in the quill and I had to belt it out.
Oh! I forgot, the motor on the lathe started to play up a bit after about 6 months use, caused by the start caps. That problem was fixed by the next day when Chester UK sent me a complete new 2HP motor by overnight courier rather than just the replacement caps. It has been perfect ever since.
 
My heart really bleeds for the new starters, because it must be so confusing for them, having all this info pushed at them from all different angles. It is a miracle a lot of them still want to carry on.
 
If only someone could only get organised a web site, where the sorts of new machines that we encounter could be impartially reviewed. That would go a long way to sorting this confusion out. A bit like the magazine Which, but for the model engineer.
 
It is the impartiality that causes the problem, and I am just as guilty of that as well, everyone reviews the machines they have, good or bad, thru their own eyes, rather than in a completely neutral and unbiased way.
 
 
Bogs
ady14/11/2010 16:05:36
612 forum posts
50 photos
These look pretty good.
 
Austrian made.
 
 
 

Edited By ady on 14/11/2010 16:07:06

Steam of Steel14/11/2010 18:57:22
7 forum posts
Hi E.
 
I acually run a Klippfeld K 10 A and a Wabeco D 2000. both machine are really good. 
I have had both machines from new and no trouble with them.
The Klippfeld was bought as a kit but with an automatic crossfeed as an extra not normally available in the kit version.  The machine came on a Euro pallet with the crytical components preassembled ready for painting and assembly. It went together well and once set up has served me well for many years. 
I believe they still offer the kits. 
 
 
I have in the course of my work purchased a Chinese lathe and used the same, the machine came with a good range of acessories and was ready to go after a good oiling and a basic set up of a couple of hours. 
 
My Chinese metal cutting bandsaw needed a lot more TLC before it would work propperly but as the others have already commented, once put right most of these machine will work propperly. 
 
Garry 
 
EtheAv8r15/11/2010 13:23:42
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111 forum posts
3 photos

Bogs – thank you, you are spot-on and can see and understand my position/delema.

Ady – yes the Klippfeld does indeed look pretty good……

Garrelt – the Klippfeld looks very interesting, but I don’t want to buy something I cannot go and see first, nor  something that is not available from a local UK vendor/distributer/dealer of some repute and good standing – I don’t have sufficient (or indeed yet any) experience to go down the direct route.  It is however heartening to get a positive response about the Wabeco from an owner.

I have reviewed my original decision to discount the Warco – and have decided to stand by that decision – the only machine of interest would be the 280V-F and it is just a bit too heavy – the difference between it and the Wabeco/Ceriani are significant.  Plus as observed above although Chinese built machines can work well and properly once the time and effort and expertise is put into them to adjust, and align and sort them out  has been performed, I am not equipped to do this, nor do I know anyone who is.  Plus I get the impression that this tweaking is an on-going requirement rather than a one off ‘job done’ effort, particularly where the machine is not regularly and frequently used.  .  I am a beginner, and a solo one at that and need/want a machine that is good from the first-off, particularly as it seems that there are some lemons, or 'Friday' machines out there, and Sods law says I will be unlucky enough to get one!

So I continue with the shortlist of the Ceriani David 203VS or the Wabeco D3000E, D4000E or possibly D6000E (but will find it difficult to find or justify the extra £1k+ for the latter over the other two Wabeco machines).

Joining a local Model Engineers club is not so easy – I have no interest in steam engines or railways, I am only interested in learning to use a lathe for my own ‘potterings’.
blowlamp15/11/2010 14:04:34
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1613 forum posts
105 photos
Av8r.
OK, so you've narrowed it down to just the 3 (possibly 4) machines, as you seem to have ruled out all Chinese made machines. We now need to know which features are causing  you concern, out of the lathes on your shortlist.
 
 
Martin.
Terryd15/11/2010 16:31:42
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1936 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Bogs,
 
I'm not sure how to read the first sentence of your posting, do you object to my mentioning that you use a Chinese lathe?  If so I'm very sorry, I meant no offence but I merely mentioned you as one example of a skilled and satisfied user of Chinese equipment, not using you as a recommendation.  I thought that it was common knowledge that you used these machines after all your postings on the various forums of which we are members .
 
I've had Chinese milling machines in the past but never a lathe.  I saw your postings on setting up your milling machine in your workshop on, I think it was the HMEM forum, but ! haven't seen any on what was involved with your Lathe.  As I've just bought a Warco Chinese lathe I would be grateful if you could point me to any tips on setting up such a machine.
 
Av8r,
I see that you have decided to go for the Wabeco or Ceriani Lathe.  I have no experience of either.  The only opinion I have ever heard on the latter was from a technician at one of the larger importers of machines.  When I was visiting several dealers to view before deciding myself, he was of the opinion that they were over priced.  Remember it was just his opinion but he was handling the whole range of machines.
 
Just a word of advice, even the best lathe must be set up correctly on site, it isn't just a case of put it on a bench, plug in and go.  You need to ensure that it is level and there is no twist in the bed as these factors can seriously affect the accuracy of the machine. Also any machine will need adjustment and servicing eventually even if it is adjusting the gibs occasionally.   I suggest that you obtain at least one of the beginners guide texts and look for information on the other more specific forums such as the 9-20 forum.  Although these focus on specific machines, much of the advice is generic.
 
Let us know how you get on
 
Best regards
 
Terr
Steam of Steel15/11/2010 19:00:39
7 forum posts
Hi E
 
as we can see you have narrowed the coice down wisely.  I unfortunately can not give any advice to a reputable UK dealer though having dealt with both Klippfeld and Wabeco direct have had good experience with them. I have not seen a UK dealer advertising Klippfeld Lathes and if they are represented at the Echtdampftreffen in Kologne on Sunday I will mention this to them.  Wabeco will be there I am sure.
 
If you look on their Homepage ( The German one ) you will find exhebition machines at reduced prices this may be of interest to you. 
 
If you find a UK dealer he may also have access to these machines!
 
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/index.php?cat=c2010_Ausstellungsmaschinen---Blatt-zum-Ausdrucken.html

Accessories are available and Wabeco have an intersting shop on Ebay.de
 
http://stores.ebay.de/WABECO-Shop
 
Rgds 
 
G.
 


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