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Steve F27/08/2009 17:07:17
96 forum posts
25 photos
   I hope someone can help my curiosity as a beginner. There are so many questions !.
   I have never built anything like this before but i have been reading the Northumbrian articles with interest. I realise there are drawing errors that have now been corrected but that . The articles are good but not beginner-ish enough for me. The last time i hit a rivet was in 1974 at school
   The frames and hornplates are drilled to take rivets. The frames are countersunk on the outside not quite to the full depth of the rivet head. A countersunk rivet is inserted from the outside through the frame and horn plate. On the inside a rivet snap is used to create a round head inside the frames. The remainder of the protruding head on the outside is filed smooth.
   Is it possibe,better or worse  to do it this way.Just wondering.
   Insert an round headed snap head rivet from the inside. Knock the protruding rivet stem on the outside of the frame into the countersunk hole and then file flat.
PS I used the word "knock" because i couldn't think of the right word.
Whack, Smash, Tap,
Dave Jones 127/08/2009 17:26:12
85 forum posts
5 photos
I have always used round head rivets the second way you described.  I find round head rivets a lot easier to get from suppliers.  If the rivet it slightly too long when you put it through the hole, when you hammer it you wont damage the frames (but you will have a bit extra to file off). 
I would however add that I am a self taught amateur so as to the pros and cons of the two systems i couldnt help you im afraid.
MichaelR27/08/2009 17:31:42
478 forum posts
78 photos
   Insert an round headed snap head rivet from the inside. Knock the protruding rivet stem on the outside of the frame into the countersunk hole and then file flat.
As you say, is the way to do the job.
David Clark 127/08/2009 17:32:49
3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi There
Sounds reasonable to me.
Use the rivet snap on the inside against the round head and the flat side of the hammer outside.
Should work OK.
regards David
JasonB27/08/2009 17:35:31
23039 forum posts
2769 photos
1 articles
I would also use the second method, insert a snap head rivit from the inside face and place the head of the rivit into a rivit snap held in your vice. Then "set" the rivit with a home made hollow punch or if you have a rivit set with both hole & half round recess use that. The reason to "set" the rivit is to make sure the two plates are close together.
Then you can start to pein over the end of the rivit to fill the CSK hole with a ball pein hammer trying not to hit the surrounding metal. Then file any excess off flush and you should not be able to see where the rivit fills the hole.
Best to have a practice with a few rivits in a bit of scrap first.
mgj27/08/2009 18:27:09
1017 forum posts
14 photos
Jason I rather agree - you do have to set the rivet, or the plates.
Also, as a complete beginner to riveting, I found it a 3 handed job. If you hammer the rivet too hard, it deforms the plate and makes it curve, and it was very difficult to get the whole thing to start straight anyway.
I had a compressor - and a boilermaker at work said that professionally they used air, so why didn't I? I bought an air hammer, (Axminster £20) and then put the cup/domed shape into the end of the hammer bit (its fairly tough, but machinable and you can use a ball nosed slot drill with plenty of coolant).
Pop the rivet in, you secure the head in the snap located in a vice - that's the anvil. Set the air regulator to about 70psi (not too meaty), press the air hammer firmly agin the protruding rivet shank, and pull the trigger. 
1 second later, you have a perfect double domed rivet and no damage to surrounding metal.
The shank sticking through needs to be a smidgen longer than dia. So for a 1/8 rivet about 3/16 of shank does the job. Doing a traction engine tender, I now have various "sets". Nice short  2" one, a 6" long one and one nearly 13" long to get into the bottom of the tender tank. teh long ones are made from hardened silver steel, socketed into an air hammer base.
Very easy!
 I'll have a go at this countersunk version

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 27/08/2009 18:28:16

JasonB27/08/2009 18:45:22
23039 forum posts
2769 photos
1 articles
The CSK ones are easy, having not long ago finished the strakes on my 2" Fowler - 288 rivits just for the strakes. Need to rivit my tender up soon, its all complete ready to go.

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2009 18:48:30

mgj27/08/2009 22:01:46
1017 forum posts
14 photos
I imagine they are probably, but tender sides are not so easy to get really neat, and you can't get a file in there to clean all up behind. Nor is there much room to swing a hammer.
Whereas a little squirt with an air gun on the end of a rod.....And prototypically, rivets were usually domed both sides I think? (Not on strakes of course - nice job BTW)
The strakes on my Little Samson I just pushed in firmly, and then weld filled the 1/8 holes from the strake side with a touch of MIG. Angle grinder with one of these soft discs and that was it. Nice and tidy job. Mind you the LS, unusually,uses cast wheels.
If I were doing it again I'd use the CSK rivets, but I'd just back them up agianst a chunk of something, and then air them in to get a neat dome. Its just so fast, and almost a one handed job.
Steve F07/09/2009 19:02:55
96 forum posts
25 photos
   Thanks everyone for your replies and thoughts. Good to see that my ideas tally with other people. I made the post and then promptly went away on holiday not expecting any replies. My last post regarding the Stephensons Rocket plans did not result in any responses.
thanks once again.
I'm sure i will be back for more

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