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4.70mm #12 G Silver Steel

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Peter Cook 628/06/2022 21:27:38
309 forum posts
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Does anyone know where I might get some Stubb's #12 (4.70mm .01850) silver steel rod.

I have acquired a partial staking set and would like to make a few new punches.

The holder takes 4.70 diameter punches. 3/16 (4.7625) is too big. New Bergeron punches are 4.70mm, so it must be available.

 

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 28/06/2022 21:28:10

Nigel Graham 228/06/2022 21:36:36
2287 forum posts
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The punches are probably ground to size, not necessarily left a stock size.

HOWARDT28/06/2022 21:36:45
932 forum posts
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Coventry Grinders could possibly supply, centreless ground from 3/16”.

Tony Pratt 128/06/2022 21:41:47
2028 forum posts
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Interesting never heard of Bergeron & their expensive staking punches until now, I doubt you will get 4.7 mm silver steel but after heat treat & polishing the 3/16 maybe will fit? Is hardened 4.7 drill rod from Zoro any good? Also your size is listed at Mcmaster Carr. Likely to be made originally from 5mm hardened stock.

Tony

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 28/06/2022 21:42:55

peak428/06/2022 21:47:25
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Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 28/06/2022 21:27:38:

Does anyone know where I might get some Stubb's #12 (4.70mm .01850) silver steel rod.

I have acquired a partial staking set and would like to make a few new punches.

The holder takes 4.70 diameter punches. 3/16 (4.7625) is too big. New Bergeron punches are 4.70mm, so it must be available.

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 28/06/2022 21:28:10

I guess it depends on how many punches you plan on making.
Phoenix Steel will supply metric in 0.1mm increments, but perhaps only in a 2m length
http://toolsteels.co.uk/silver-steels-ground-polished.php

"We have large stocks of silver steel available, ex-works in both metric and imperial sizes. Our primary stock is 2000mm and 1000mm lengths.
We can supply the industry standard 13”/333mm lengths in single or any quantity you require.
We also stock a unique product in 2000mm lengths (from 2mm up to 18mm) of 0.10mm incremental metric sizes for that exact fit."

Bill

Michael Gilligan28/06/2022 22:10:01
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Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 28/06/2022 21:41:47:

Interesting never heard of Bergeron & their expensive staking punches until now, …

.

For info.

Bergeon has been around for quite a while: **LINK**

https://www.bergeon.swiss

MichaelG.

JasonB29/06/2022 07:36:30
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What about 12g piano/music wire, it's the diameter you want and has a similar carbon content to Silver steel

speelwerk29/06/2022 08:10:44
447 forum posts
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Punches of a watchmaker staking tool I have (Boley/Star/Bergeon/Helios) all are 4.7mm diameter, why I don't know but t is not handy if you want to make your own punches. The guide bush for the punches on top of the tool has its bore placed eccentric and a small spring loaded ball to prevent the punchen from sliding down but it would be not to difficult to make one with a 5mm bore. Niko.

Hopper29/06/2022 08:12:08
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Knocking two thou off a piece of 3/16" in the lathe to reduce it from .187" to the desired .185" (4.7mm) shouldn't be too hard should it? Bit of emery tape would do the job pretty quickly. Or a fine cut with an HSS toolbit if the job is held dead true in a collet or 4-jaw.

Depends on how many punches you want to make though. A dozen or so should be easy enough. More than that could be a bit tedious I'm sure.

Edited By Hopper on 29/06/2022 08:12:41

Peter Cook 629/06/2022 15:02:19
309 forum posts
88 photos

Thanks for the feedback. McMaster-Carr has exactly what I need and at US$6.29 for a 3ft length! However they don't ship to Europe.

Bill, I have asked Phoenix for a quote for a couple of 1 Metre lengths, and have also asked an outfit called raptorsupplies who claim to supply any McMaster-Car part in UK. Hopefully their prices will not resemble their name!

Hopper - taking a bit of 3/16 down is my fall-back position, but if I could get the material for anything like McMaster-Carr's price I would do so in preference.

Jason, not sure 12g piano wire is the same wire guage - all the suppliers I can find make 12g = 0.75mm i.e. AWG rather than Stubbs.

Niko, there is a bit of a discussion about the reason behind the size used at

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/identify-staking-punch-and-size.135442/post-1048863

Thanks again.

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 29/06/2022 15:18:44

JasonB29/06/2022 16:36:02
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Always been SWG when I have bought it, same with the first few hits on google

12swg.jpg

Dave Halford29/06/2022 16:55:40
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Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 29/06/2022 15:02:19:

Jason, not sure 12g piano wire is the same wire guage - all the suppliers I can find make 12g = 0.75mm i.e. AWG rather than Stubbs.

Thanks again.

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 29/06/2022 15:18:44

I just thought it was for a really big piano smiley

Michael Gilligan29/06/2022 17:24:55
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Posted by JasonB on 29/06/2022 16:36:02:

Always been SWG when I have bought it, same with the first few hits on google

12swg.jpg

.

dont know … I’m confused, here in my little corner:

Why would anyone want 2.65mm [or thereabouts] wire to make 4.7mm punches ?

MichaelG.

JasonB29/06/2022 18:16:41
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The heading is asking for 4.7mm or 12gauge 2,642mm is 12gauge by the SWG standard. Unless Stubbs had their own gauge system?

Peter Cook 629/06/2022 18:18:30
309 forum posts
88 photos

They wouldn't want 12 SWG which is as you say 2.65mm diameter.

No 12 piano wire (AMWG - not AWG my mistake in the reply post) is 0.75mm

They would want #12 Stubbs steel wire guage an old and probably obsolete wire guage. Not to be confused with Stubbs Iron wire guage. The Stubbs #12 steel is 4.7mm. This from a K&D catalogue of staking tools dated 1910.

stubbs wire guage.jpg

They seem to have been the instigator of such devices, and everyone copied their standard.

Edit - the metric to inch conversions presumably use the US inch rather than the UK inch - they were different at the time, only standardised to 25.40mm in the 1960's

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 29/06/2022 18:27:00

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 29/06/2022 18:28:42

JasonB29/06/2022 18:27:40
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Thanks For that peter, did not know they had their own system.

Think I had brain fade this morning and had 2.7mm in my head not 4.7embarrassed

Edited By JasonB on 29/06/2022 18:31:27

Michael Gilligan29/06/2022 20:49:42
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I am now unconfused/deconfused [or whatever] … yes

MichaelG.

Peter Cook 630/06/2022 12:51:51
309 forum posts
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OK 3/16 and time on the lathe it is.

Phoenix only offered 3/16 not 4.70 special.

Raptor supplies wanted £16.70 each for the bars, £63.00 shipping and handling plus Vat so £115+ for two items totalling US$12.50 at McMaster-Carr.

Nick Clarke 330/06/2022 16:39:02
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Tracy Tools list drill branks in all sizes if that would be long enough?

Michael Gilligan30/06/2022 16:50:18
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Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 30/06/2022 16:39:02:

Tracy Tools list drill branks in all sizes if that would be long enough?

.

That sounds ideal yes

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/06/2022 16:50:40

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