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2" Fowler plough

Help finding Drawings

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Alexander Cairns26/05/2022 23:29:06
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Hello

Can anyone help me where I could get a set of drawings for a 2" Fowler plough built in 1963.

Thank you

Jon Lawes27/05/2022 07:07:11
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I think we need a bit more info or even better some photos; It's going to sound like pedantry but it really will help us narrow down what you need!

Are you referring to the double sided ploughs pulled by ploughing engines? I assume you are not talking about the ploughing engines themselves?

JasonB27/05/2022 07:25:58
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There are 3 published designs for Fowler ploughing engines

The BB1 By John Haining and Colin Tyler is probably the most common and is a compound with 5" dia boiler

The 16NHP Is an earlier style single cylinder engine with 5" boiler again by John Haining

The Z7, Z7S and Superba all to a design by John Haining this is a bigger compound engine with 6" boiler that could be made in the 3 versions

There is also the Kitson and Hewitson easily identified by the Clip drum that gripped a cable rather than the deeper drums of the others that had many winds of cable around them. haining/tyler design

Sarik or Blackgates will have the drawings for the first three, Colin Tylers son was selling drawings for the Kitson but I don't know if he still does

Build date suggests it could be earlier than the Kitson or BB1 which were late sixties, post some images if you can.

If it's an actual implement then the balanced Plough and Mole Drainer were both later publications in the 80s I think.

 

Edited By JasonB on 27/05/2022 07:46:46

Dave Halford27/05/2022 11:22:24
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Blackgates list the implements under the Countrymans Steam banner, though 1963 is too old for those

The Superba and also the 16hp ploughing engine were also serialized in ME back in the 80'S

Alexander Cairns03/06/2022 13:13:47
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8 photos

f4.jpgf3.jpgf2.jpgThank you for the replies.

I have manged to find out how to add pictures

Here is the 2" Fowler and 1 picture after giving it a clean.

f1.jpg

JasonB03/06/2022 16:07:55
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looks to be more of a very basic free lance design than anything Fowler and no sign of any ploughing gear or drum

Alexander Cairns03/06/2022 18:56:40
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8 photos

Ok thank you. Was describing Traction engine by what I have been told by others on a fb group.

Going to get help from members at my local Model Engineering club as would like to know what's missing.

JasonB03/06/2022 19:08:52
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Apart from a bit of missing plumbing to get water into the boiler via the two clack valves on the side of the boiler and the pump and injector there does not look to be much missing to get a basic running engine. Steering also needs looking at. I have my doubts as to whether it could be converted to a ploughing engine for several reasons.

However before you invest any time and money into it get the club inspector to look over that steel boiler, at 60 years old and no way of telling what use it has had or how it has been stored it may not be safe to use.

JasonB03/06/2022 19:40:01
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Have a look at this engine in Station Road Steam's archive, the builder of yours may have once seen onewink

He was certainly thinking of an early Fowler Ploughing engine like the K5 shown as the drive gear layout and cylinder are of the same general layout and it has the double tee ring front wheels often seen on a ploughing engine. The offset flywheel side crankshaft bearing bracket suggests there were thoughts to add a bevel gear to drive a shaft down to the cable drum but none of that has been done.

Dave Halford03/06/2022 21:27:07
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The raised sides of the hornplates are missing, which may mean it is not the Haining design and someone was freelancing an earlier wrought iron engine with the cradle for the crankshaft.

The cylinder is looking for it's missing coffee pot cover and only Fowler used them, It also has the Oxford rebuild style safeties and smokebox + no Church valve.

The rear wheels are built Superba style in three pieces.

For drawings the bigger Haining Class V 16nhp will be close enough with care, as serialised in ME during 82 to 83, you rarely see the proper A3 drawings, but these are identical to the ones in ME. The K5 is a much smaller 6 to 8nhp engine though it does have the correct straight flywheel.

Alexander Cairns03/06/2022 22:57:50
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8 photos

Thank you everyone for the great info.

Will have a look at the ME (82 to 83) when at club next week.

Looking forward to getting it running if boiler checks allow.

Will update when any news.

Dave Halford03/06/2022 23:19:49
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23 photos
Posted by Alexander Cairns on 03/06/2022 22:57:50:

Thank you everyone for the great info.

Will have a look at the ME (82 to 83) when at club next week.

Looking forward to getting it running if boiler checks allow.

Will update when any news.

As in years 1982 to 83 in every other mag.

Paul Lousick03/06/2022 23:40:45
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 Hi Alexander, Your engine appears to be a standard traction engine as it does not have a winch.

3" Single cylinder Fowler BB1 ploughing engine **LINK**

fowler 1.jpg

fowler 2.jpg

276091910_3268079436795725_1887624332758796549_n.jpg

Edited By Paul Lousick on 03/06/2022 23:50:43

JasonB04/06/2022 07:11:20
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Ross's engine is not a BB1, it's an earlier single cylinder. And as it predates all of Haining's published designs it won't be to those.

I mentioned earliad my doubts if it could be made into a plough, these are some of the reasons why

To me it looks like the smokebox on Alex's engine is the wrong way round, of the ploughing engines with long smokeboxes the perch bracket should be towards the front which puts the axle forwards giving room for the drum. Is it really only held on with 4 fixings?

The lack of hornplates and any sign of bracketry for the ploughing shaft and drum pivot will mean that welding the last two and suitable strengthening plates to the boiler will be required which would likely need a coded welder or a very capable person and weld tests.

Also well as some way to get a central bearing onto the spindly looking crankshaft. Then there is the issue of how to support the winch controls with no hornplates. Side load on the bevel and lack of specticle plates or meaty enough bearing supports would mean you could not really pull anything even if you got a drum fitted, thats if the low spoke count wheels did not fold first.

Edited By JasonB on 04/06/2022 07:12:37

Paul Lousick04/06/2022 08:38:51
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My mistake Jason, it's not a BB1. Ross describes it as as just a 16HP Single cylinder ploughing engine in 1/4 scale on the data description sheet that he sent to our club. He started work on it in January 2015 and took 5000 hours to build.

Some good photos of a BB! found on the Station Road Steam site which has some similar features Alexanders engine.

**LINK**

JasonB04/06/2022 10:16:17
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Its and it's sister engine are not based on a specific engine as they did vary in the early days, they are numbered to place them around 1880 which I think is about 30yrs before the BB1. There are also a lot of detail differences between Hainings 16NHP and Ross's engine not least that his is far closer to the prototypes of the day where Hainings is better described as "stand off scale" as the RC plane modellers call it, in other words Hainings looks roughly like a 16NHP at 10 paces!

The castings for Ross's originally came from Station Road Steam, if you are on TT then there is a good long build thread though some of the pictures don't show now

Dave Halford04/06/2022 10:34:44
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Posted by JasonB on 03/06/2022 19:40:01:

Have a look at this engine in Station Road Steam's archive, the builder of yours may have once seen onewink

He was certainly thinking of an early Fowler Ploughing engine like the K5 shown as the drive gear layout and cylinder are of the same general layout and it has the double tee ring front wheels often seen on a ploughing engine. The offset flywheel side crankshaft bearing bracket suggests there were thoughts to add a bevel gear to drive a shaft down to the cable drum but none of that has been done.

Just noticed that the bevel gears are hiding in the tender along with a spare / knackered piston and all the coal.

There's more than one builder been involved, the last one doubling up a Minnie crank, bolting on the smokebox and chucking a fire in it.

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