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High Speed Bench Drill?

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Barry Smith 422/04/2022 12:43:56
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17 forum posts

Hi, does any have experience they can share on hi speed bench drills particularly modern (proxon) vs traditional Pollard/Herbert ie old proper drill presses. I will be using it to supliment my belt drive bridgeport which has, like me seen better days when used at high speed.

thanks

Barry

lfoggy22/04/2022 15:33:22
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194 forum posts
18 photos

What speeds and what size drills are you looking for?

I have a modern Amercian made Cameron model 214 drill press with a speed range of 1000 - 30,000 rpm that I use for my clockmaking. Its an excellent machine that easily drills holes down to 0.3mm. Cameron claim you can go smaller than this but have not tested this myself. Not much use for anything above 2mm though.

**LINK**

John Haine22/04/2022 16:57:02
4679 forum posts
273 photos

There's a little Proxxon drill press which is best avoided.

AJAX22/04/2022 17:05:10
387 forum posts
42 photos

We have about 6 of those little Proxxon drill presses for PCBs. Some are mains powered, others use a brick adapter. I don't particularly recommend them. The chucks are low quality and there is a lot of slop in the mechanisms.

AJAX22/04/2022 17:05:49
387 forum posts
42 photos
Posted by Barry Smith 4 on 22/04/2022 12:43:56:

Hi, does any have experience they can share on hi speed bench drills particularly modern (proxon) vs traditional Pollard/Herbert ie old proper drill presses. I will be using it to supliment my belt drive bridgeport which has, like me seen better days when used at high speed.

thanks

Barry

How "high speed" do you need?

Brian G22/04/2022 17:26:21
841 forum posts
37 photos

I have a Proxxon TBM220 which has three speeds - 1,800, 4,700 and 8,500 RPM, although to be honest I have never needed to use its top speed. Using the included collets (which don't go below 1mm) isn't very convenient, but the nose is threaded 3/8" to take a 0.5-6 mm screw-on chuck, and Proxxon sell a decent Rohm chuck for it.

(I also have a 10mm Rohm chuck which would theoretically let me drill 10mm holes in aluminium on the slowest speed, but it seems a bit unkind on a tiny machine with an 85W motor to try this.)

As a comparison, it seems to be at least as rigid as my Unimat SL in drill mode (both are more than rigid enough for small drills), and can go faster than the Unimat's 6,000 RPM.

Brian G

Barry Smith 422/04/2022 18:07:25
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17 forum posts

Thanks for these useful comments looking to be able to use in the range 3000 to 8000 for sub m3 holes in alloy and steel. I have been making do with my bridgeport with belt drive head but it does not like going more than 2,000 rpm, or at least my ears don't like it. Ideally a high speed head for my F3 Aceria would be nice, but almost impossible to find, hence deciding to look at alternatives solutions. I do like old iron, but just a little concerned wrt wear on the spindle bearings but I guess that means trying before buying, which is a good maxim.

Barry

bernard towers22/04/2022 18:55:43
619 forum posts
109 photos

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

not done it yet22/04/2022 20:20:28
6812 forum posts
20 photos
Posted by bernard towers on 22/04/2022 18:55:44:

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

Bernard,

How much is one ‘elf power’, compared to Brian G’s 85W Proxxon?🙂

Brian G22/04/2022 20:39:05
841 forum posts
37 photos
Posted by bernard towers on 22/04/2022 18:55:44:

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

Or possibly an epicyclic speed increaser like the one offered by Hemingway Kits, that would give you up to 6,000 RPM without running the mill beyond 2,000?

Brian G

Mike Poole22/04/2022 21:31:28
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Moderator
3344 forum posts
74 photos

A sensitive feed is an important part of a high speed drilling spindle, sub millimetre drills need a high speed and sensitive feel to avoid breakage, the sensitive feel is probably more important than the optimum speed which can reach extremely high levels for non ferrous materials.

Mike

bernard towers22/04/2022 23:58:02
619 forum posts
109 photos

Problem with the hem speed increaser is its reverse rotation, but I have some half finished drawings for one that travels in the right direction, watch this space!!

Barry Smith 423/04/2022 10:52:31
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17 forum posts

Thanks all very useful. As always the requirements expand as thinking if I go down the speed increaser / self powered route I might include some milling with small end mills. So I need to steer away from chucks. I have seen some planetary speed increasers with two 10mm shafts for less than £40 but not sure re bearings and what the tir would be when fitted with an er chuck. Obviously the main gearbox would have to be located as per the hemingway kits model. Not too concerned re reversing as all my Mills are on vfds.

Barry

Dave Halford23/04/2022 12:12:50
2054 forum posts
23 photos

As Mike mentions, the beauty of a proper high speed drill is that you can drill small holes with the pressure of one finger. If your Bridgeport quill lever delivers that OK, if not then you buy a lot more small drills.

steamdave23/04/2022 12:49:45
511 forum posts
44 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 22/04/2022 21:31:28:

A sensitive feed is an important part of a high speed drilling spindle, sub millimetre drills need a high speed and sensitive feel to avoid breakage, the sensitive feel is probably more important than the optimum speed which can reach extremely high levels for non ferrous materials.

Mike

Chuck Fellows (RIP) described a small sensitive drill table and I based mine on his design.

sensitive drill table.jpg

It uses a linear bearing for the vertical slide. The screw holes are spaced to accept a Myford vice and extra counterweights are available to maintain a neutral balance. It mounts on the milling machine table or in the main vice easily. It may not suit Barry's requirements for the high speed but Mike mentioned a very valid point about sensitivity.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Edited By steamdave on 23/04/2022 12:50:15

Edited By steamdave on 23/04/2022 12:51:13

bernard towers23/04/2022 13:16:06
619 forum posts
109 photos

That’s really nice Dave.

ega23/04/2022 14:45:51
2543 forum posts
201 photos

steamdave:

When I saw your drill table I immediately thought that it could be incorporated into GHT's UPT instead of the original minidrill design.

Can you point me to details of your own or Chuck Fellows design, please?

steamdave23/04/2022 17:13:18
511 forum posts
44 photos

ega

Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you all the info. There is too much to put here.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Barry Smith 423/04/2022 18:24:28
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17 forum posts

Steamdave, very nice and a good solution to part of my conundrum. Just need to look at getting the spindle speeds up.

Barry

Rod Renshaw23/04/2022 18:53:11
376 forum posts
2 photos

The points about sensitivity are well made but I sometimes wonder if we worry too much about speed. Clearly someone wanting to make 10,000 very small widgets an hour on an automatic machine needs to consult tables of optimum speeds but for less demanding requirements less speed may not be a big problem.

Think of those traditional watch and clockmakers and their bob drills and bow drills and Archimedian drills. One would need to be some sort of athlete to get more than a few hundred RPM with any of those. In one of the early MEs a highly respected author wrote there is "no speed too slow to get a good finish or a true hole, it just takes a little longer."

So if one only needs a few small holes, and has a machine that does not wobble, has a concentric chuck or collet, reasonable bearings and a sensitive feed, and is not impatient or ham-fisted then small holes are not a problem. I don't know about anyone else but I find the setting up of the machine, the marking out of the job, the clamping and general alignment of the work all take a lot longer than the comparatively few moments that the actual drilling takes,

I do like the rising table idea for small holes on a big machine. perhaps the design could be written up for MEW?

I have a traditional sensitive drill of the Edgar Westbury type which I bought from a forum member who had made it himself from a set of castings and was giving up due to age and ill health. it has done me well for small holes down to about 0.5mm despite not going more than about 2,000 RPM on the fastest of it's 3 speeds.

Rod

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