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Former Member03/03/2022 13:57:54
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Ady103/03/2022 14:09:58
5092 forum posts
736 photos

I understand people surrounding themselves with books because they have £ value and a big stack of them makes you look really intelligent but can you search your entire library in 10 seconds to find the page you need?

Plus they're a big fire risk devil

Mike Poole03/03/2022 14:13:57
3343 forum posts
74 photos

Just because a download exists on the internet does not necessarily make it legal to download it, much material that is protected by copyright has been posted in various places on the internet. Of course the chances of being pursued for an illegal download are very slim, most effort is put into prosecuting the hosts of illegal material much as happened with the music pirates. Artistes now receive minuscule reward from hosting sites and now earn a living by touring. I do think that material that is covered by copyright but is out of print and only available at inflated prices on the second hand market does have a weakened argument for protection but they always have the option to reprint if demand grows. Much interesting material that is out of copyright is available in various places and is perfectly legal to download.


Emgee03/03/2022 14:20:29
2426 forum posts
290 photos


If it's complete and what you want download it, I would without hesitation whilst it's available, you never know if and when it will be taken down.


Fowlers Fury03/03/2022 14:40:21
406 forum posts
91 photos

Mike Poole has captured it 100%.
An author of an esoteric, technical book, pamphlet or journal article makes a pittance on royalties. No way will you (or your estate) recover anything approaching a decent "hourly rate" for all your research & input.
Furthermore, within a relatively short period, illicit copies of your book will be on Fleabuy and other sites offering pdf d/loads and not a penny will you see of the sale price.
Infringement of copyright is honoured more in breach than observance.

Of course, the sale of a few books within copyright at say MES auction nights for club funds, though technically illegal, isn't the issue !

So in answer to:-
"Me, being cost conscious,, ( or tight ) would download What would you do - just out of interest ?"
Do whatever you feel is right, but if you d/l "for free" don't be surprised in future to find that a required new " book on an engine build " has never been written !

Derek Lane03/03/2022 15:04:12
762 forum posts
171 photos

For those that I have looked at I prefer to buy the book as I enjoy reading those that interest me and can flip back and forth very quickly especially if they say look at fig so and so I put a finger in the page I am reading and go to the fig in question then simply go back to the page I am on.

Those that I have seen for download seem like a lot of faffing about if you need to do as I described from a printed book

JasonB03/03/2022 15:09:48
22755 forum posts
2654 photos
1 articles

For a start Bill the download is not "the same" it was the magazine articles that I said could be downloaded (with no copyright issues) these are basically what the book is made up from.

Would have to work out how the costs compare for an ink cartridge or two against the book.

A lot of people also like to have a book that is easy to pick up and put down so you can read a bit a sand when you like, in the case of the recent thread the OP already has bound volumes of ME so obviously wanted a book not reprinted articles or digital version.

Frances IoM03/03/2022 15:27:15
1268 forum posts
28 photos
it is not illegal,as far as I know, to sell by auction or otherwise previously purchased books still in copyright - otherwise much of the 2nd hand market would be in trouble. What is illegal is to make a copy of the book and sell that.

Edited By Frances IoM on 03/03/2022 15:37:30

Former Member03/03/2022 15:32:54
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

MikeK03/03/2022 15:39:40
226 forum posts
17 photos

Is it a used, out-of-print, book? If so, I would download it and not worry about it. While I prefer to have the physical book in hand, the prices for many used books has gotten insane. I've seen some books list for over $1000USD.

JA03/03/2022 16:36:42
1360 forum posts
80 photos

If it is in copyright and in print you buy the book, new. This gives the author some money for his work.

I am biased since I receive some income, very small, from copyrighted material.


Robert Atkinson 203/03/2022 18:15:08
1210 forum posts
20 photos

Mike and JA Have pretty much got it covered.

I will give one exception, Websites that sell amterial that is free from the copyright holders. An example of this is American military standards. Even well respected companies like IHS will happily let you pay for a PDF you can downlod for free from a US government website. Interetingly most "MS" sspecifications are being "converted" to SAE documents. MS1234 becomes AS1234. In many ases they don't even re-format it, just put cover page on it. You do of course have to pay for SAE documents.
An intersting twist is a lot of publishers will sell a PDF but the licence says ony one person can read it and while you can print a copy you are not allowed to let anyone else read that either.

Robert G8RPI.

Laurie W03/03/2022 19:38:27
5 forum posts

I'm with Mike and JA on this one as well.

Jon Lawes03/03/2022 20:39:16
927 forum posts

I've written a couple of books of variable quality. Most publishers of books of this type tend to pay around £1.50 per copy sold, but that varies a lot depending on how well known you are, how broad the market is etc.

I've got another book idea lined up but to be honest I've gone off the idea of spending 18 months to a year writing something, knowing full well that my sales will be severely dented as soon as people start sharing bootlegs. What's the point in putting in the work if people will steal it rather than pay for it? I can't pay the mortgage with good wishes.

Former Member03/03/2022 20:54:32
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Jon Lawes03/03/2022 21:13:57
927 forum posts


No apologies needed, I was merely giving my perspective.

As for Bill not posting I have to disagree; his posts are often interesting and sometimes start enlightening debate. Having lots of different opinions being aired is no reason for him to withdraw from the conversation. I certainly don't think he has any more or less to offer than most of the members here.

Just like 99% of the members on this forum, his perspective and knowledge is what gives us such an interesting place to have an informed chat. Disagreements are normal and usually sorted amicably!


DiodeDick03/03/2022 22:57:39
36 forum posts
9 photos

In a forum thread re-locknuts, December 2012, I suggested that marine engine builders look for Sothern's "Verbal notes and sketches". Michael Gilligan added a link to an edition available for free download. This was useful as print copies seem to be getting scarcer, but the real benefit to engine builders is in the (sometimes) large fold-out plates. From my experience of downloads, these are either missing or reduced too much to be usable.

Generally, I do not download from an iffy source when a hard copy can be bought. In my view that is too close to "Stealing by Finding" which is a seldom-prosecuted offence in Scotland, but if the only way to get a copy of "Le Genie Civil" from 1886 is to download it from The French national library, then presumably that is what it was put there for.


Bazyle04/03/2022 00:35:29
6324 forum posts
222 photos

So many books (non fiction) are hardly even skimmed by their owners. Especially in the areas of model railway hobbyists. I have an archive of decades of ME with more coming in with MEW and other subs if I read / reread one a day I wonder if I will live long enough to get through them. Then books, say one a week, that's going to be years even before I start on the shelves of fiction my parents bought. I mustn't buy any more but people do keep bringing things along to the club because they want to ease the burden of books they won't read again.

Bill Phinn04/03/2022 01:46:16
755 forum posts
113 photos

Like many people, I'm sure, I have certain titles in both digital and hard copy formats. There are pros and cons with each.

The main drawbacks for me with scanned and digitised books are that they will always need technology, in addition to the human eye, to be consultable; that, given the pace of technological change, their long-term retrievability is difficult to be confident about; and, lastly, that they are more likely to have miscopied, illegible or missing portions that corrupt the author's original text.

Hopper04/03/2022 08:19:24
6412 forum posts
334 photos

There is a lot of weird stuff that goes on with the pricing of used books on the net in specialist fields such as model engineering and vintage motorbikes. I often see books that are still in print and available from publishers such as Tee Publishing or even the ubiquitous Workshop Practice Series that are listed used on the net at ridiculous prices many times the brand new price.

I think it is perhaps a result of software many used booksellers use to automatically list and price their stock on the net, using "bots" that crawl the net and find existing prices and then up them a little bit. After some time of this, prices artificially creep up. And maybe some unscrupulous dealers deliberately list books at silly prices so the bots automatically list their competitors books at high prices and then they can drop theirs and give someone " a bargain".

That very droll Scottish bookseller Shaun Bythell mentions such software in passing in one of his "Confessions of a Bookseller" books. Very amusing series of books and worth a read if you are interested in such things.

As for downloading, all fair enough if a book is long out of print IMHO, as a person who makes a living selling copyrighted material. But help feed a starving artist and don't do it for current material, or pretty soon nobody will bother writing books anymore. Then what kind of a world will we have?

Edited By Hopper on 04/03/2022 08:42:24

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