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Help buying multifunction Compound 2 Axis 4 Ways Working milling table

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Wayne Rowley03/02/2022 13:55:46
14 forum posts
8 photos

Hi all,

Looing to buy a milling table, but I need a good one, as when moved into position, for drilling several holes over and over in 40mm x 8m bar, and other metals for my wrought iron firm, not sure I can put a link in to our Web-Site ??? I dont want any movement whatever, or when move into position, I would like to lock it into position. I have a very good big pillar drill I will fix it to, and will fix my swivel vice on top of this.

I seen one on EBay, called; Multifunction working milling machine X Y cross worktable for bench drill, its what I "want", £269, BUT, cant see the name on this.

Hoping for a few ideas on which to buy, would like to buy one in the next two days, as have a very big job on.

Thank you all in advance.

Wayne

Howard Lewis03/02/2022 16:03:32
6311 forum posts
15 photos

A bench drill is NOT designed for the sideways loads imposed by millin, nor is the drill chuck.;

A co ordinate table will enable holes to be drilled more accurately (or as accurately as that particular table and operator combination can achieve ), in terms of position.

It will not transform a drilling machine into a milling machine. Neither the chuck, nor the bearings were designed for that use.

If you intend to mill, save the money by not buying a co ordinate table, and put it towards a Milli which will have the co ordinate facility in three planes, and be designed and constructed for that use.

Horse for Courses, and You get what you pay for!

Howard

Dave Halford03/02/2022 16:25:49
2093 forum posts
23 photos

Howard,

Wayne wants it for drilling

Looing to buy a milling table, but I need a good one, as when moved into position, for drilling several holes over and over in 40mm x 8m bar, and other metals for my wrought iron firm.

Dave Halford03/02/2022 16:29:09
2093 forum posts
23 photos
Posted by Wayne Rowley on 03/02/2022 13:55:46:

Hi all,

Looing to buy a milling table, but I need a good one, as when moved into position, for drilling several holes over and over in 40mm x 8m bar, and other metals for my wrought iron firm, not sure I can put a link in to our Web-Site ??? I dont want any movement whatever, or when move into position, I would like to lock it into position. I have a very good big pillar drill I will fix it to, and will fix my swivel vice on top of this.

I seen one on EBay, called; Multifunction working milling machine X Y cross worktable for bench drill, its what I "want", £269, BUT, cant see the name on this.

Hoping for a few ideas on which to buy, would like to buy one in the next two days, as have a very big job on.

Thank you all in advance.

Wayne

Wayne,

Give ArcEuro a ring

Clive Foster03/02/2022 16:47:19
3173 forum posts
113 photos

Wayne

Is that the blue one that can be got from several suppliers?

If it is I'd be worried that the "same" thing can be found at prices from £110 (ish) to £270 (ish) with the rotating base and down to £70 (ish) without. Even the pictures are the same.

My guess is its likely to be pretty good value for money at under £150 delivered but "some fettling" required. At least the basic castings and design look workmanlike sturdy. Some of the other affordable ones are just too much made down to a price so a degree of flippity flop has to be accepted.

Clive

Journeyman03/02/2022 16:53:12
avatar
1174 forum posts
236 photos

For multiple holes in multiple parts I would have thought that jigs or fixtures was the way to go. One operation on all parts and then change jig for next operation on all parts etc. Mill tables and winding handles is for one off operation (or at least just a few)

John

not done it yet03/02/2022 20:58:53
6888 forum posts
20 photos

If the holes are in line, one only needs the vise fixed and use stops. If not in line then a spacer wedge (to move the bar across in the vise) to drill another set of holes in a new line might be a better option?

Personally, I would avoid using a swivel vise if at all possible.

AJAX03/02/2022 22:38:09
395 forum posts
42 photos
Posted by Wayne Rowley on 03/02/2022 13:55:46:

Hi all,

Looing to buy a milling table, but I need a good one, as when moved into position, for drilling several holes over and over in 40mm x 8m bar, and other metals for my wrought iron firm, not sure I can put a link in to our Web-Site ??? I dont want any movement whatever, or when move into position, I would like to lock it into position. I have a very good big pillar drill I will fix it to, and will fix my swivel vice on top of this.

I seen one on EBay, called; Multifunction working milling machine X Y cross worktable for bench drill, its what I "want", £269, BUT, cant see the name on this.

Hoping for a few ideas on which to buy, would like to buy one in the next two days, as have a very big job on.

Thank you all in advance.

Wayne

If I'm looking at the same ones as you, they look like junk and not suitable for production use. Not wishing to seen rude, but are you serious?

I agree with the suggestion of hold downs, jigs and stops.

You could even get an old multi head drilling table which comes t slotted and ideal for these jobs. They can be picked up cheaply.

Wayne Rowley04/02/2022 02:03:41
14 forum posts
8 photos

Hi all, Thank you for all the posts.

No, I was "not" going to buy that one on EBay, it was just the sort of table I was looking for, but wanted a very steady one, one that will "not" move at all, thats most important.

I have got it done to the ArcEuro; 240mm x 145mm, AMA-LCT330 compact, or the SCT Cross Slide Milling table. Question please, would all these three have two table locks, one for the front to back, Y axis and one for left to right, X axis ??? And which would you buy ???

A jig would work, but as I use the drill for lots of other things, I would still have to set it up every time, I did try this, but thought its going to be far more faster and accurate, if I buy a table and mount my locking swivel vice to this.

Again, thank you all.

Wayne

Wayne Rowley04/02/2022 02:46:24
14 forum posts
8 photos

Hi all,

I cant find one second hand good one on EBay ??? Any good second hand machine sites about pleae ???

Wayne

JasonB04/02/2022 07:03:37
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Moderator
23058 forum posts
2769 photos
1 articles

The problem with most of these cross tables are that they are really a poor mans mill so you don't find too many made to industrial standards as they would simply have used a mill.

Even the ones from the likes of ARC could move if you are whacking through 25mm holes and have 2m of bar hanging off the end, ok for some smaller holes on a short bit of bar. Even then I doubt any of those ones you list will gaurante zero movement

Of the three on your list the Amadeal one would likely be the most solid, if you look at the length of the X axis dovetail ways on the Chronos ones they are probably not more than 70mm long based on the 90mm table. The Amadel is about double that so far less likely to sag to one side if you have  along length of bar sticking out to one side . Also the Chronos one is a quite lightweight affairs at 5kg, my small machine vice weighs more than they do! The ARC one being based on the bottom of a small mill may not go back far enough to get under your drill's spindle and harder to bolt to it's table

 

Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2022 07:47:10

Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2022 07:54:53

Andrew Johnston04/02/2022 09:32:01
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6671 forum posts
701 photos

The cart is before the horse. Before we can advise on what to buy we need to understand what size holes, on what size work, how are the holes placed and to what accuracy?

Everything moves to some extent, so it is unrealistic to demand no movement. A cheap XY table plus swivel vice is inviting the wobbles with associated inaccuracies.

Andrew

Martin Connelly04/02/2022 09:44:49
avatar
2182 forum posts
227 photos

When I was at work I looked at this same situation but for drilling arrays of large holes in junction box gland plates, Ø16, Ø20, Ø25 and Ø32 in plastic, stainless and mild steel. We had a couple of large radial drills and a couple of Pollard drills available to use them with.

The cost and weight of the industrial ones was prohibitive and in the end we swapped out one of the pillar drills and replaced it with a milling machine (Warco GH Universal style with morse taper spindle) supplied with a DRO fitted. We also changed from twist drills to broaching cutters. A couple of wide opening drilling vices with the jaws machined to have a lip to hold thin plates saved on messing with clamps. The electricians loved it and wanted to know why they had had to struggle with clamps and vices for so long. The time saved on the process rapidly paid for the machine.

p1080951.jpg

What you should also consider is how much time is going to be spent removing and refitting a coordinate table to a drill if it can't be left on all the time.

Martin C

SillyOldDuffer04/02/2022 11:59:18
Moderator
8895 forum posts
1998 photos

Tricky one to answer, because I've no experience of putting a milling table on a pillar drill.

I have tried a cross-slide vice on a pillar drill and it was a complete waste of money, but the tables Wayne is asking about should be better. Wayne has a 'very good big pillar drill',which should be less bendy than my cheapo drill.

Irrespective of how well-made the table is, it's unwise to build a pagoda on top! Putting a table on the pillar drill adds height and reduces rigidity and accuracy. Adding a swivel vice to the table as well will make the problem worse. Whether reducing accuracy and rigidity matters depends on the job. If the holes have to drilled better than ±0.05mm, a tall set-up probably won't do, but it should do ±0.1mm. Designs are often changed to reduce the accuracy needed. Or the table is carefully used to make a jig and/or fixtures that position the job accurately for drilling. Jigs & fixtures are excellent for repetitive work because they provide speed and accuracy.

Of the three tables listed by Wayne, they look similar to me but it's hard to tell how well things work from a picture. The XY locking is done as in this photo pinched from ArcEuro. It done by tightening a screw, in this example an Allen type, against the gib strip:

millingtable.jpg

The 4 gib adjusters are tweaked so the table moves smoothly from end to end without binding or wobble. Takes practice to get right, and may not be perfect on delivery.

I guess they would all perform about the same. Things I would look out for:

  • Imperial or Metric (I much prefer metric)
  • A rough scale on the table is useful for rapid positioning, otherwise the user has to count wheel revolutions. Should be possible to roll one's own.  Fitting a DRO is probably over the top for this application.
  • The wheel-scales are probably resettable so X&Y can be moved relative to a user zero, but it's a right pain if they can't! Mental arithmetic required.
  • How conveniently will the table fix to the pillar drill? Much depends on the layout of the drilling platform: hole and slot positions, ribs that get in the way of clamps etc.

Of the three:

  • ArcEuro score high on reputation. Their table is almost certainly metric, no claims made for accuracy. I can't see from their photo that the wheel scales are adjustable, however the photo of next size up shows the they are and I doubt the scales on the smaller table are different. Can't see a rough scale. The table is clamped to the drill platform, or there are small bolt holes in the corners.
  • Amadeal table also metric, and they confirm the scale is adjustable in 0.01mm increments. (Actual accuracy unlikely to be this good!) There's a rough scale fitted. The table has U shaped bolt holes, I guess 6, which might match the pillar drill platform, or it could be clamped.
  • Chronos table has accuracy quoted in metric but the scales are Imperial. No rough scale. The photo of the table has long fixing slots, which stand a better chance of aligning with the drill platform, but the scale drawing shows 4 U holes.

Of the three, only the Chronos has a specification:

  • Accuracy 0.06~0.08mm/200mm
  • Parallelism 0.06~0.08mm/200mm
  • Backlash 0.06mm

Not good compared with a milling machine, but I think representative of what you should expect of drilling tables.

None of them come with clamps or T-Nuts, so budget for these as necessary.

Which would I buy? Not the Chronos, because it's Imperial. Probably the ArcEuro because it happens that my drill platform is better suited to clamping than bolting down through U holes and I already own a clamping set. But if ArcEuro were out of stock, the Amadeal table would do. Not vital for me to save a few quid, so I'm not influenced by the AMA being a shade cheaper. If cash is short, don't forget to if check Post and Packing is included when comparing prices. In the event a dud table arrives, though ArcEuro has scored loads of customer service brownie points, the other two companies can be expected to replace or refund without much hassle.

Beware of buying cheap from the Internet. Risky if anything goes wrong, for example buying an iffy factory second and finding the Terms and Conditions require it to be sent back to a depot in Germany at your cost...

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 04/02/2022 12:04:08

peak404/02/2022 12:15:23
avatar
1785 forum posts
193 photos
Posted by Wayne Rowley on 04/02/2022 02:46:24:

Hi all,

I cant find one second hand good one on EBay ??? Any good second hand machine sites about pleae ???

Wayne

I'm not sure what you're using as a search term. Try "Milling Table"
There's this one, but it depends on where you live.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284626275961

Obviously I don't know its condition or suitability.

You could give The Sheffield Tooling Company a bell
https://sheffieldtooling.co.uk/product-category/workholding/tables/

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 04/02/2022 12:18:39

John Hinkley04/02/2022 14:18:38
avatar
1355 forum posts
430 photos

They are available secondhand - at a price! Have a look at this one: EFI milling table for pillar drill It certainly looks the dog's danglies but quality and accuracy costs.

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 04/02/2022 14:18:53

Wayne Rowley05/02/2022 19:05:41
14 forum posts
8 photos

Hi all,

Thank you all so much for your help, what a fantastic forum. No time now, back tomorrow night.

Thanking you.

Wayne

Baz05/02/2022 19:16:28
756 forum posts
2 photos

As Andrew said earlier the cart is before the horse,we need to know what sized holes and to what tolerance the OP intends doing, let’s all hope he can share the information with us all so we can get a clearer picture of what he is trying to accomplish.

Wayne Rowley06/02/2022 14:16:57
14 forum posts
8 photos

Hi all, back later, info some want for now.

I have a small wrought iron firm, and one of the jobs we do far more these days, is steel framed gates with wood or composite in. {see if I can get a few photos in} So I have thee 40mm x 8mm bars going across the gates, top middle and bottom, and three holes in each, to take a 8mm or 10mm sliver or brass dome bolt. Say each gate is 2m, we would have say 15 dome blots going along top top middle and bottom. Well as you imagine, all these bolts need to be in a perfect line, if not, looks like very bad craftmanship, and thats not me, as been in business over 40 year.

Yesterday we had a very big gate to make, with wood going on, and double bolts in each, 140 holes to drill, that have to be in line. I have a very big Atlas drill, but with my vice, its not set up for doing things like this, it took be an hour to get into the right position. But as I use it for other things, I have to move it out of position, and have to set up each time, I just dont have the time, I just want to be far more efficient doing this. I could mark out the middle of the 40mm bars, and centre punch, all holes, but I could be out a little, and that takes far to long.

Also I dome bolt my railings togther the same way, three bolts going right though, 40mm x 8mm, 50mm x 50mm box, then another 40mm x 8mm all sandwich togther, for us to bolt up on the job and level up, take apart for galvanising and powder coating, then back to the job for final fix again.

Thank you all so much, as when I get this right, it will be so good to have holes smack on, and save so much time.

Wayne

Wayne Rowley06/02/2022 15:05:41
14 forum posts
8 photos

dsc_1074[1].jpg

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