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How useful is high 5000rpm spindle speed in a mill

This is yet another 'which mill' thread in disguise.

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JasonB05/02/2022 15:53:00
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The vice comes with a couple of tee nuts and bolts so you will be good to go.

You could make more tee nuts for clamping to suite the slot size but tapped for your existing threads.

jaCK Hobson05/02/2022 19:43:47
265 forum posts
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Posted by JasonB on 05/02/2022 15:53:00:

You could make more tee nuts for clamping to suite the slot size but tapped for your existing threads.

Maybe an even better 1st project. Hurrah

jaCK Hobson06/02/2022 19:14:38
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Today I prepped the stand. Old Ikea cabinet with bracing and castors. I'll find a way of clamping it to the wall when in use.

img20220206185709.jpg

jaCK Hobson07/02/2022 13:08:45
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I modify the basket with the SG vice. That also makes my dilemma about which size easy as it is between 100 or 160 (which just looks too massive). I like it when decisions are clear cut!

Does the SG vice come with bolts or do I need the smaller of these:

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Clamping-Sets/Hold-down-Clamps

jaCK Hobson07/02/2022 15:25:11
265 forum posts
93 photos
Posted by jaCK Hobson on 07/02/2022 13:08:45:

Does the SG vice come with bolts or do I need the smaller of these:

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Clamping-Sets/Hold-down-Clamps

No, and No.

jaCK Hobson11/02/2022 19:29:23
265 forum posts
93 photos

img20220211183632.jpg

jaCK Hobson22/02/2022 17:10:44
265 forum posts
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Some minor glitches with the mill, but I'm over that now. The box it comes in is huge and an almighty bother to move but now the mill is in place it is 'just the right size'. I have already moved its location in the workshop several times as I work out where it fits best. The Mill comes with 4 Tnuts to help fit the vice.

 

I took a punt on the cheapest 2 axis DRO that still had the sexy features I'll never use like radial coordinates. Just over £100 delivered due to special offer on the day from Vevor. I only gave it 50/50 that I'd receive what I expected, and that it might take months...

The DRO did come in two separate deliveries... but it all arrived in not much more than a week, and it works! Already I'm happy!.

The X axis is 1m so a bit long... I'll just take an angle grinder to it and see what happens. Not sure if I put this on the mill or the Myford... Do I need 3 axis on a mill that already has dro on spindle?

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 22/02/2022 17:12:23

Pete Rimmer23/02/2022 18:50:24
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You can't cut the scales down with an angle grinder they ar made of glass inside.

SillyOldDuffer24/02/2022 10:55:18
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Posted by jaCK Hobson on 22/02/2022 17:10:44:

... Do I need 3 axis on a mill that already has dro on spindle?

I manage without!

My mill came with a electronic scale on Z, and dials on table X and Y. As dials are error prone I added two of ArcEuro's basic scales, which have served me well:

Despite not being well protected against swarf and cutting fluid, they've survived! They make the mill much easier and faster to use.

The main disadvantage of the basic system is the X, Y and Z displays aren't grouped together or particularly readable. Big clear numbers and controls on the same visually convenient panel are an obvious improvement, but in practice I manage without.

Most of my milling is done by moving the table (X,Y) after the tool-height is set (Z). I only watch Z when drilling and plunging. Z is handy, but I could manage without a digital scale. DRO on X and Y provide most of the value in my workshop.

As always the value of an accessory depends on how the machine is used. Fitting a DRO of the simplest type to a mill is almost a no-brainer - it transforms the machine. After that, reasons I might upgrade to a 3-axis display include:

  • Getting fed up with reading displays scattered around the machine. Not having a central display doesn't slow me down badly enough to fix it. But sometimes it gets close!
  • Repetition work
  • Frequent switching between metric and imperial. (I'm 95% metric, so not worth it for me.)
  • Drilling lots of PCDs and lines of holes.
  • Milling lots of curves or inclines.
  • Need to recall absolute zero (I work from a succession of relative zeros)
  • Convenience of a built in calculator for tool offsets, cutting speeds etc.
  • Wanting to measure feed rate

Dave

jaCK Hobson24/02/2022 18:47:57
265 forum posts
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Posted by Pete Rimmer on 23/02/2022 18:50:24:

You can't cut the scales down with an angle grinder they ar made of glass inside.

There are people on the internet who claim to have cut glass scales with methods including slitting disc in an angle grinder, metal cutting bandsaw, diamond wheels, dremmel, handsaw...

I didn't actually come across any reports of anything going badly wrong but I guess people are less motivated to publish their fails.

jaCK Hobson27/02/2022 13:52:34
265 forum posts
93 photos

I went ahead and cut the glass scale with a slitting disc in the angle grinder. I got lucky and it cut perfectly. I had a lot of extra scale so had the opportunity to try multiple times. Worst case was 2cm of scale chipped out at the end.

I reckon there isn't anything special about the angle grinder - I would guess that glass just shatters under stress but tends to go across scale rather than along... which makes sense from a 'science' point of view. Band saw, hack saw, just snapping without even scoring... I bet they all work within 2 cm. I was 'careful' but that is only within the limits of how careful you can be with an angle grinder.

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 27/02/2022 13:53:28

Pete Rimmer27/02/2022 15:01:07
1255 forum posts
69 photos

Well done is all I can say. Fair play to you for just going ahead with it Jack.

jaCK Hobson07/03/2022 13:38:42
265 forum posts
93 photos

The DRO works. Bargain.

img20220307123952 (1).jpg

X is neat:

img20220307124015.jpg

I'm a bit worried about Y - I should really turn the scale up the other way to minimise dirt getting in (for now I leave a bit of extrusion resting on top).

img20220307124008.jpg

Does anyone want to encourage me to turn it upside down, or do some people live with a scale this way up?

Tips for installation:

I started trying to complete the install without any dismantling of the mill but it is so much easier once you do! And tapered gib strips make is simples.

Again I am glad I got this size of machine and not any bigger - the cross slide is about as heavy as I would like to handle on my own without any assistance.

Thoughts on the SX3.5

The flaking paint issue is extensive on my mill. I was forewarned so I'm managing not to let it bother me. Be careful to check if paint is going to bother you!

The X power feed installation feels like it lets the side down. The electronics and motor are fine, but the hosing is thin plastic and will not last much longer. I have had to take the cover off a few times and if you put the wrong screw in, or over tighten, then the plastic cracks and that screw hole is then no good. I got 2 screws left holding the panel on... and they come undone because I don't want to over tighten like I did the others. I thin I will be 3Dprinting a new box within 12 months. The wire to the limit switch dangles around ... not sure what the soln would be though. The power is via a separate brick about the size of an old laptop power supply, and the power input socket has its threads stripped so dangles out the box. Note that there are extensive power supply options hidden in an enclosure behind to column so a nice soltion would to have been to provide the power from there.

The column is no where near as massive as it seems in the sales pictures - most of that is a steel sheet covering to enclose the power and electronics.

The Z power lift however is a nice install. Enclosed power supply, hidden wiring etc.

The quality of finish, including surface finish, tends to be good enough and no more. An example is the gib strip. Where you might expect a scraped surface, you have the same effect but achieved with a hand held grinder. The actual points of contact are probably less than 10 across the whole gib - but these are at the extremes so it does its job. I don't know what impact this might have on wear.

The rest of the wiring and circuit boards are all neat.

As far as being a good or bad mill... I have no idea as I have nothing to compare to. But if you are buying, then be prepared for the above and you will be much more likely to avoid dissapointment.

JasonB07/03/2022 14:39:49
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My scale is the other way up.

I was sent one of the same power feeds by Ketan 4-5years ago to trial before he made a decision to stock them and it's still working fine with no signs of cracking or breaking and I have had it apart a few times as part of the evaluation process, all screws still present and correct..

Edited By JasonB on 07/03/2022 14:40:17

Mike Poole07/03/2022 15:03:47
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I would remount the scale so that gravity is on my side rather than working against me, a stray chip could destroy the scale as they are usually glass and once broken or even damaged it will be game over. When I was a sparky in a tool room you had to wonder how swarf got to the places it finds, but almost nowhere was safe.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 07/03/2022 15:04:19

jaCK Hobson26/07/2022 16:10:39
265 forum posts
93 photos

I made something, mostly on the mill, using lots of different cutters, saw, power tapping, workholding, positioning etc!

I just made it up as I went along, so design flaws, but lots of fun! I haven't quite worked out how to use the thing best in all situations but I can at least use it. Not got to 5000 rpm yet.

I failed to make a brass thread to fit despite using matched M6 tap/die! Std m6 bolt goes in brass hole, std m6 nut goes on thread, but brass thread don't go in brass hole

fingerplate.jpg

Mark Rand26/07/2022 17:45:50
1304 forum posts
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Posted by jaCK Hobson on 26/07/2022 16:10:39:.

I failed to make a brass thread to fit despite using matched M6 tap/die! Std m6 bolt goes in brass hole, std m6 nut goes on thread, but brass thread don't go in brass hole

 

Either it's a little bit tighter than the commercial nuts and bolts (which tend to be a rather sloppy fit). If so tighten the die up ever so slightly and take another pass.

Or there's a bit of a burr on the start of one of the threads that the chamfer on the commersical nuts and bolts are navigating ok. If so, a bit of work with a file or deburring tool might help.

 

Meanwhile:- Nice work. smiley

Edited By Mark Rand on 26/07/2022 17:47:08

Robert Atkinson 226/07/2022 20:16:52
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Interesting thread. I've been thinking about buying a small mill and was looking at the Sieg SX2P package from ARC. Most of my work will be on non-ferrous material for electronics projects. Quite a lot of drilling small holes too (will be adding a DRO). I was concerned about the 2000 RPM top speedof the SX2LP. This thread has helped me decide that the SX1LP would be better suited to my needs. The slightly larger Y travel may be an advantage when doing panel cut-outs too. The MT2 collet is not Ideal but I will probably get a ER collet which sorts that issue.
Now I just need to decide if I have room....

Robert G8RPI.

Robert Atkinson 227/07/2022 11:51:41
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OK, this is weird.

I've been looking at mills for sale and I just took a telephone call from ARC Eurotrade asking for SWMBO by name. SWMBO would not know a mill from lathe if her life depended on it. We do have an anniversary coming up though.

Robert G8RPI.

Mark Rand27/07/2022 12:09:17
1304 forum posts
35 photos

Maybe she's decided to take the hobby on. laugh

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