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Newton Tesla lathe package

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John Haine23/01/2022 16:13:52
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Afternoon all. I've got one of these on order for my Super7 and, absent detailed information from NT like a downloadable manual, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a query please.

The lathe in question is CNC'd and I would like to have a single e-stop to halt the CNC and the lathe motor. I gather from NT that they don't have any spare contacts on the internal e-stop to bring out and anyway the warranty would be void if the box is opened.

The alternative is to have an external e-stop that just turns off the power to the drive as well as halting the CNC system. I have the usual NVR starter/estop switch for the Myford which will be redundant when the NT unit is fitted, this could supply the NT drive as well as operating a suitable relay to feed an e-stop to the CNC.

So my question is, does anyone know what the NT estop function is, does it just operate on the mains or is it more intelligent (e.g. braking the motor quickly)?

Thanks in anticipation!

Emgee23/01/2022 16:42:48
2404 forum posts
285 photos

Soinds like you need to pass control of the VFD from the unit and any remote station to the cnc control system being used so start/stop/fwd/rev/speed is controlled by the program running.

Emgee

ega23/01/2022 17:48:28
2487 forum posts
199 photos

I have the NT CL750 package on my S7. I just did a quick subjective comparison between the estop and normal red stop button and there seemed to be no difference.

John Haine23/01/2022 18:09:38
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Thanks EGA. Is there a pilot light on the unit, does it go out if estop is pressed?

Steviegtr23/01/2022 20:40:54
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2421 forum posts
336 photos

My Super7 with the Omron has both soft stop (timed as required) & a e-stop which is instant. From what you say it seems there is not that function on the NT. I'm just going to do a experiment on the lathe.

Ok so i ran the lathe & switched off the power to the inverter. The lathe did not stop instantly as it does using e-stop. So i guess using a contactor at the power source will not stop quick enough if timed to cnc.

Steve.

duncan webster23/01/2022 21:06:50
3919 forum posts
61 photos

I've always found NT very helpful, have you tried asking them nicely to fit an e stop with a spare set of contacts. I've bought 4 inverters from them, not the cheapest, but only a few miles away, so if advice needed I can call in.

ega23/01/2022 21:06:59
2487 forum posts
199 photos
Posted by John Haine on 23/01/2022 18:09:38:

Thanks EGA. Is there a pilot light on the unit, does it go out if estop is pressed?

No pilot light on my unit which dates from 2004 since when it has functioned flawlessly according to its rather basic lights. The more recent TECO drive I have on my other lathe was a challenge to install but it does have user-programmability.

John Haine24/01/2022 17:35:00
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Thanks for the information everyone. I've now got a pdf of the manual and it confirms that the estop removes all power from the inverter so the motor coasts to a stop. So an external estop should do the job, switching the supply off and also generating an estop signal for the controller.

peak424/01/2022 17:48:05
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1671 forum posts
175 photos
Posted by John Haine on 24/01/2022 17:35:00:

Thanks for the information everyone. I've now got a pdf of the manual and it confirms that the estop removes all power from the inverter so the motor coasts to a stop. So an external estop should do the job, switching the supply off and also generating an estop signal for the controller.

John, I can't speak for the NT unit. but at least one inverter I have suggests limiting how often you stop it by killing the mains power feed. Without searching for the manual I can't remember now, but it's something like keeping it to less than once per minute.
I've no idea why.

Bill

John Haine25/01/2022 09:54:57
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Bill, indeed, as does the NT manual. But with an "upstream" estop the estop frequency will be no more than with the integral one. They suggest operating the estop at the end of a machining session just to isolate the machine.

peak425/01/2022 12:44:54
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1671 forum posts
175 photos
Posted by John Haine on 24/01/2022 17:35:00:

Thanks for the information everyone. I've now got a pdf of the manual and it confirms that the estop removes all power from the inverter so the motor coasts to a stop. So an external estop should do the job, switching the supply off and also generating an estop signal for the controller.

John, any chance of a copy of the pdf please, mine came fitted to my second hand Warco720 (Super 7 clone)
The NT package was brand new, but without any paperwork.
I did have a look, but there didn't seem to be a download option on NT's site.
Many Thanks
Bill

John Haine25/01/2022 13:50:58
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Bill, I sent you a PM.

Mike Poole25/01/2022 14:26:34
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Moderator
3302 forum posts
73 photos

A controlled stop which is when you just want to stop the motor with the normal stop button which will bring the motor to a stop under the control of the VFD and can be programmed to be a very fast stop. Perversely an emergency stop will be uncontrolled and probably slower than a normal stop, many VFDs now have a safe torque off feature which can inhibit the drive to the output stage thus being a safety stop, the other option is to kill the supply to the VFD which results again in a coast to stop. An emergency stop must be able to halt the drive in the event of the VFD control failing in such a way that it is unable to halt the motor, safe torque off is a safety circuit that should fail safe if it fails itself or will effect a stop when requested. Wiring a mushroom estop button to the motor off control is not an emergency stop.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 25/01/2022 14:27:07

John Haine25/01/2022 14:46:41
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Quite possibly Mike, but that is not what I am proposing. The internal estop clearly just removes the supply from the inverter/motor. Connecting another switch in series with the supply to the unit does exactly the same thing.

From the manual...

"Emergency Stop.
Pushing this will cut off all power to the inverter and the machine will coast to a standstill. To release the stop button, the head is turned clockwise allowing it to return to its’ normal position. The machine can then be restarted with the green start button."

John Haine28/01/2022 16:54:15
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Just to finish this off, I have adapted the original lathe switch box by removing the reverser and fitting a 13 socket to the front with the "e-stopped" supply brought out to this from the contactor. Also across the switched output is an opto-isolated sensor that gives a logic "low" when the output mains is "on" to the estop input to the CNC BoB. This is on a little board from a supplier on eBay. Box mounted on the RHS of the lathe cabinet, the NT box will mount where this used to be.

pxl_20220128_162940256.jpg

Mike Poole28/01/2022 17:23:15
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Moderator
3302 forum posts
73 photos

Killing the supply to the VFD via a NVR is an effective EStop. It would be best to not use the EStop for stopping the motor unless in an emergency but operating the EStop with the is drive stationary is the same as turning it off. If you are going to work on the drive train then pulling the plug is the ultimate safety device but if the EStop button latches then an accidental restart would be most unlikely as it would require the button to be released the NVR reset and the drive start button to be pressed. Having two EStop buttons that do different things is not ideal but if you can live with the button on the NewtonTesla box only stopping the motor then the NVR can be wired to stop the CNC and the motor. Personally I would invalidate the warranty and open the Newton Tesla panel but I understand the downside of doing this.

Mike

John Haine28/01/2022 17:44:39
4622 forum posts
273 photos

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at here Mike. It's clear from their manual that the NT estop just switches off the mains supply to the inverter, nothing else! I suspect that there is also an NVR function of some sort since normally the box just replaces the normal Myford unit.

So what I am doing is simply replicating their estop function with a switch upstream. So there are two estop buttons that DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING as far as the drive is concerned.

Just in case it isn't clear, in normal operation the estop WILL NOT BE USED to stop the motor, only the stop button on the NT controller.

Just as a little sidelight, when I took the back swarf guard off the existing motor I found a short green wire connected at one end to the motor casing with the other end having just the fractured end of a crimp connector. It seems that this was supposed to be the way the whole machine was earthed, but once the connector fractured it clearly wasn't! Myford - British engineering at its best. People who have Myfords, you might care to check your earthing.

Emgee28/01/2022 18:40:41
2404 forum posts
285 photos

What you found John will apply to any machine with a resilient mounted motor, the earth (cpc) conductor will be connected to the frame of the motor and if required a bonding link will be taken from the motor frame to the metallic part/s of the machine.
A simple current injection earth continuity test between the earth source (earth pin if 13A plug) and the motor frame and the metallic parts would highlight any missing bonds.

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 28/01/2022 18:41:57

John Haine28/01/2022 19:03:55
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Indeed, but what I'm pointing out was the poor design that allowed the link to fracture. The fact that it was hidden under the swarf guard so you couldn't see it compounds the error.

John Haine31/01/2022 15:31:13
4622 forum posts
273 photos

Just another question if I may. Could someone who has one of these units fitted please let me known the dimensions of the box and the spacing between the mounting holes (which I believe are M4)? There isn't an outline drawing in the manual. Also a photo of the unit in-situ would be useful. I'm going to have to make a little adapter to fit it to my lathe cabinet as the CNC electronics has moved into it and there's a cover on the front to keep swarf out of cyberspace...

Thanks in anticipation...

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