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New highway code rule.

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ega24/01/2022 14:31:34
2487 forum posts
199 photos
Posted by speelwerk on 24/01/2022 13:48:41:

Done my driving test almost 50 years ago but never heard of the "Dutch reach" and I am sure 99% of my countrymen also. But if you do not look over your shoulder when opening your car door you will fail your driving test in The Netherlands. Niko.

There is a Wikipedia article for those who are interested. It claims that "public awareness of the method in the Netherlands extends at least back to 1961".

Of course, it may not have been known as such then; my impression is that the phrase was coined out of compliment to The Netherlands as a leading cycling nation.

Edited By ega on 24/01/2022 14:34:19

John Haine24/01/2022 15:19:35
4622 forum posts
273 photos


modeng200024/01/2022 16:02:02
304 forum posts
1 photos

Is the Guardian a pro-cycling newspaper?

Grindstone Cowboy24/01/2022 16:02:44
854 forum posts
64 photos

A good link there from John Haine - pretty much all of the changes are merely basic common sense and courtesy.


Grizzly bear24/01/2022 19:02:51
300 forum posts
8 photos

It would be good, if having past your car driving test, (Not on the same day). You had to cycle around a busy route.

Then take an articulated vehicle around a off road route (Under supervision), it would enable you to appreciate other

users. I know, wishful thinking.


Nicholas Wheeler 124/01/2022 19:06:57
906 forum posts
86 photos

Any road user should watch this VIDEO

Andy Stopford24/01/2022 19:31:47
155 forum posts
17 photos
Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 24/01/2022 19:06:57:

Any road user should watch this VIDEO

Quite so, and it underlines the cataclysmic stupidity of the new rule giving cyclists right of way to overtake on the inside. The Road Haulage Association tried to get this legislation dropped, to no avail. I'm glad I no longer drive lorries, the thought of cyclists trying to zoom past at night, in the dark, in the rain, when all you can see behind is a mass of lights and reflections...

With regard to the 'Dutch reach', I've always looked over my shoulder before opening the door, not, I must confess, out of consideration for cyclists, but from the purely selfish motivation of not wishing to have my door, and arm, removed by a passing bus.

Harry Wilkes25/01/2022 18:46:53
1322 forum posts
65 photos

Been watching the news the last couple of nights quite a bit about the new code not much mention of e-bikes or scooters so it looks like us motorists should pay our car tax stay home or get a e-bike/scooter


Anthony Kendall26/01/2022 09:15:09
148 forum posts

Mmm! So it's all down to common sense and courtiousness, according to The Guardian.

Have to say I'm not seeing so much of it really - particularly on the roads.

SillyOldDuffer26/01/2022 11:41:44
8469 forum posts
1885 photos
Posted by Anthony Kendall on 26/01/2022 09:15:09:

Mmm! So it's all down to common sense and courtiousness, according to The Guardian.

Have to say I'm not seeing so much of it really - particularly on the roads.

Depends where you drive. Out in the country, behaviour on lightly loaded main and side roads is pretty civilised. Country lanes are dodgy because a few drivers travel too fast, presumably not realising pedestrians, horses, cyclists, cattle, and agricultural machinery might be on the road. Or their twin is coming the other way!

In busy towns when roads are very heavily loaded, people generally behave well. The dangerous point is when traffic is busy, but not quite clogged. It's the point at which motorists who don't make progress get caught at traffic lights, junctions, road-works, and crossings etc. The likelihood of getting caught encourages cut-throat selfish behaviour - not giving way. Unfortunately many British roads are nearly overloaded most of the time - too many cars on not enough road.

Towns and cities often have local characteristics. In my youth, driving in Bristol was remarkably brutal - worse than London. Back then, Bristol city centre featured traffic merging into a single-lane fly-over, chicanes, and two A-roads crossing in a flat X, with no lights or either road having priority. The system worked by terrifying drivers into good behaviour, but I'm sure everyone drove in a bad temper around the rest of Bristol because they were all sky-high on adrenaline.

Anyone else have a list of worst drivers? Top of my list are people who consider themselves entitled: Taxis, Caravans, Boy Racers. SUVs, Couriers, White Van Man, and certain cyclists and motor cyclists. I'm more tolerant of learners, lost, bemused, elderly and other temporarily confused motorists. Lorry and bus drivers are pretty good in my experience, except buses like to stop, and trucks like to keep going!


Mike Poole26/01/2022 12:24:39
3302 forum posts
73 photos

My eldest son lives in Bristol and has done since he went to university there, they keep moving the goalposts so as soon as you think you know where you are going they change it round. It may not be a problem for much longer as my diesel cars are probably going to be banned so may have to bus or train to visit. I collected a parking ticket once when moving son and girlfriend to new digs, the traffic warden was most apologetic as he had given us as much time as he could and had just written the ticket when we returned, he advised us to appeal and the council cancelled the ticket. My fault really for developing a removal man’s thirst and grabbing a quick cuppa instead of parking the car properly. The motorbike killers used to be Volvo drivers, they seemed utterly oblivious to motorcycles and they rarely disappointed when pulling out of side roads to test your brakes, BMW and Audi drivers now seem to want the top spot for bike killers now. I have joined the BMW drivers now and I hope I still drive courteously and considerately, the car has not changed me I hope.


Nigel McBurney 126/01/2022 15:21:04
999 forum posts
3 photos

Cycles,mobility scooters etc ,should have a registration plate and their riders,/drivers have third party insurance and all pay road tax. plus an audible means of warning ie a bell,modern cycles can be ridden at high speeds and are inaudible to the average pedestrian . This latest highway code must have been written by some government office loony who walks everywhere. I live on a country lane minimum or no verges,last year I saw a horse rider leading another horse on a rein held in her left hand for exercise ,and using a mobile phone at the same time in her other hand,with no real control of her own horse,just idiotic. And last night there was a bit on TV news suggesting that if the new driverless cars are involved in an accident ,the manufacturer of the guidence system would be liable rather than moron supposedly in charge of the car.

Mark Rand26/01/2022 16:02:40
1236 forum posts
28 photos

There seems to be a lot of 'all vehicle classes are wrong except the one I use' in some of the recent comments.

In other news:- When I lived in Devon with a lot of single track, twisty roads that had gates or passing places every 1/4 mile or so, reversing was something that happened as a matter of course when meeting oncoming vehicles. Living in a town, it seems almost impossible for many drivers to reverse 10 yards to let someone past let alone a few hiundred...

SillyOldDuffer26/01/2022 17:13:26
8469 forum posts
1885 photos
Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 26/01/2022 15:21:04:


This latest highway code must have been written by some government office loony who walks everywhere.


And last night there was a bit on TV news suggesting that if the new driverless cars are involved in an accident ,the manufacturer of the guidence system would be liable rather than moron supposedly in charge of the car.

I'm surprised a few changes to the Highway Code are causing so much excitement.

And even if the new rules are raving mad, why did no-one on the forum respond to the Government's 'Call For Evidence', when it was issued in March 2018? Sleeping on the job? Or it easier to wait for the yellow press to get us in a froth than it is to engage in a boring consultation process?

Not sure it makes much difference who is liable for accidents involving driverless cars. All that's needed is for the vehicle and maybe the manufacturer to be insured. Not dissimilar from the existing system, where the driver is insured rather than the vehicle.

In the UK's record insurance payout, a woman crippled for life received a £7.5M lump sum, plus £230,000 per year for life from the insurer. Total cost of the accident expected to be about £23M. The driver who caused the accident received a 6 month jail sentence suspended for 1 year, was banned for 18 months, and ordered to do 300 hours community service. Though liable, his legal punishment for causing a record breaking accident isn't severe : punishments rarely are. Had the accident been caused by a driverless car, the driver would have been innocent and the victim would have got similar compensation.

If driverless cars become common it will be interesting to see how the cost of insuring them compares with insuring human drivers. As most accidents are caused by drivers rather than mechanical failures, I predict human premiums will become relatively expensive. Insurers prefer low risk clients, and people are unreliable compared with machines. Computers don't get ill, drunk, angry, tired, over optimistic, race other cars, or make mobile phone calls.


mgnbuk26/01/2022 19:45:14
1175 forum posts
71 photos

Computers don't get ill, drunk, angry, tired, over optimistic, race other cars, or make mobile phone calls.


But computers rely upon software to operate & I'm sure we have all had experience of how infallible that can be !

Nigel B.

Vic26/01/2022 21:15:20
3060 forum posts
8 photos

We will have to wait and see but the last time I looked at an article on the subject they claimed it would reduce accidents by 95%. No surprise really when you see the state of some driving on UK roads. I suspect the ultimate goal is or will be to take private transport out of public hands completely. Having a cheap reliable on demand service will certainly not appeal to most motorists now but for those that can’t drive or afford to buy a car it will be a godsend. I never forget waiting nearly an hour in the freezing weather for a bus that was supposed to be every 14 minutes.

Peter Greene 🇨🇦26/01/2022 21:57:30
488 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Vic on 26/01/2022 21:15:20:

I suspect the ultimate goal is or will be to take private transport out of public hands completely.

At which point the original objective will become lost and it will simply become another method of taxation.

John Haine04/02/2022 18:11:12
4622 forum posts
273 photos


Mike Poole04/02/2022 19:08:39
3302 forum posts
73 photos

Well that is a sensible balanced analysis of the changes. If cyclists and motorists use common courtesy and common sense there should be no problems. I got stitched up by a couple of cyclists once, driving on a B road with good visibility of two cyclists I decided to pass them without slowing too much, there was a small turning to the right which I had not allowed for the cyclists turning in to, one cyclist put his arm out and moved to the middle of the road, the other decided to stay on the left, the road is now completely blocked and I had to brake rather hard, I have to admit that I seriously misjudged that scenario but I feel the cyclist who moved to the middle did not note the speed with which I was approaching and contributed to the creation of a near miss. I fully accept that I should have read the situation better and slowed long before it became an emergency. It raised my heart rate but if I was one of the cyclists I would have needed a change of underwear. I traveled that road daily so I was totally familiar with the turning which has little use as it only goes to 4 houses but the cyclists manœvre was put your arm out and simultaneously move to the middle of the road, had I been the cyclist I would have indicated my intention to turn well before moving to the centre of the road which gives the motorist a bit more of a chance to respond to the situation. I feel it taught me a lesson but I wonder if the cyclist took anything from the event.


Paul M05/02/2022 11:59:48
74 forum posts
4 photos

An interesting and possible cause for concern regarding the new advice when turning into a side road. Motorists should allow pedestrians to cross at a junction where the motorist is turning into a side road. So if the motorist can see a pedestrian waiting to cross they should let them cross. My friend is partially sited and has a guide dog. The guide dog is trained NOT to lead the person across the road until it cannot see any traffic. So a car may be waiting for the person to cross and the guide dog will be waiting for the car to drive past.

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