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Smart meter

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pgk pgk22/01/2022 11:29:36
2553 forum posts
293 photos

I was told that fixed ground based systems PV require planning consent and that one requires the consent of DNO for the size of system? Presumably for local load balancing reasons? Quite apart from my agri fields I have a 3acre curtilage so adding to rooftop solar would be easy enough - assuming I ever find a company prepared to install one (having been let down by four so far that surveyed and never returned)...

Samsaranda22/01/2022 11:50:22
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1408 forum posts
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Clive

I think the problem of acceptance of smart meters is the future intended use by suppliers, firstly a smart meter can disconnect the customer any time that the supplier wishes to reduce the loading on the supply circuit to balance the usage against energy fed into the supply system, one can speculate that suppliers will delay the capital costs of upgrading supply by limiting how much power a circuit will supply, a benefit for the supplier and definitely not a customer benefit.

Secondly the intention is already stated and the meters have the technology to vary the price being charged at any time when the supplier sees that there is a high demand for power, conversely when demand is low then the supplier will reduce the pricing to encourage more usage, a big advantage for the supplier and only a limited advantage for customers.

Smart meters are great for displaying how much energy is being consumed at any one time but that is incidental to their real purpose which is the benefit for suppliers in manipulating supply and maximising their income, we haven’t seen smart meters being used in that way yet, but it is coming, sorry for being so cynical but you are at the mercy of big business, and they take no prisoners. As customers we have no effective representation against the energy businesses, the current statutory body is a sham and has no real teeth, I won’t mention any government responsibilities to customers as I don’t want this posting being classed as political and being taken down. The energy market is going through major changes with the advent of electric home heating and electric vehicles and energy suppliers will become very powerful businesses, how will they be regulated?

In respect of smart meters, I feel particularly aggrieved that as a consumer I am expected to fund the provision of meters that are for the benefit of the energy suppliers, they should be funding the roll out of this technology from the huge profits that they have made in the past by overcharging customers in times gone by. I am glad that I took the plunge a few years ago to install solar panels and batteries, if I could, I would supplement that with a wind turbine in my garden, any means to reduce how much electricity I have to purchase is welcome, as electricity prices continue to rise then solar generation will make more financial sense. Dave W

Speedy Builder522/01/2022 12:49:03
2594 forum posts
208 photos

here in France, we have LINKY "smart meters". You access the data by your "smart" phone, but you can only see historic data so as far as I can see, they are of little practical use to the user. To see actual live usage, you have to be at the meter and as our is by the front gate, it aint going to happen. I can't find any reference to a remote reading device however there are some user accessible contacts that could be used to see the consumed energy pulses.

I keep looking for an Arduino app that might do this.

Bob

Bazyle22/01/2022 13:41:42
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6301 forum posts
222 photos

I have the display in my living room and can see what is being used but mostly i can't do much about it. I do occasionally decide to turn off a dehumidifier if I'm using my bigger power hungry PC to bring the instantaneous consumption down. It also alerts me if my daily consumption has been above the long term average.
Occasionally I get a shock when I see it hitting 2kw and panic, then remember I have just turned the kettle on. If I didn't do the washing during cheap rate at night I could use it to notice when the cycle had ended. I haven't got so intense, yet, that I work out the cost of washing my shirts but maybe after the winter bills come in I will be seen in historical re-enactment of the 18th century villagers down at the river.

SillyOldDuffer22/01/2022 13:54:21
Moderator
8512 forum posts
1914 photos

Posted by Samsaranda on 22/01/2022 11:50:22:

...

Smart meters are great for displaying how much energy is being consumed at any one time but that is incidental to their real purpose which is the benefit for suppliers in manipulating supply and maximising their income, we haven’t seen smart meters being used in that way yet, but it is coming, sorry for being so cynical but you are at the mercy of big business, and they take no prisoners.

...

The history of Smart Meters doesn't support the idea that they are fo0r the benefit of suppliers. They've been forced on suppliers by governments.

Government Energy Policy has to plan 50 years ahead and they are very concerned about the future of energy supply. The way electricity is made and used is changing. About 30% of UK energy is renewable, and the proportion is rising. Wind is the main contributor, but unfortunately it depends on the weather. That means supply and demand have to be managed in new ways, and the best way is by changing the price.

The existing system has effective ways of dealing with excessive demand:

  • Mains frequency and/or voltage is reduced slightly so less energy is transferred per second. This only works up to a point, then
  • The load is reduced by disconnecting whole areas and certain industrial users.

Which is least painful, consumers cutting back when their meter tells them that electricity is extra expensive, or the the whole district blacking out without warning?

Dave

Former Member22/01/2022 14:09:08
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Samsaranda22/01/2022 14:28:12
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1408 forum posts
5 photos

I think the posting by BR reinforces my cynical view, the current smart meters have the ability to disconnect the consumer but as yet the meters do not have the facility to disconnect EV chargers and individual electric heating systems but the will to do so exists within the future plans of the energy suppliers. Dave W

Former Member22/01/2022 14:45:55
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Mike Poole22/01/2022 15:15:18
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3308 forum posts
73 photos

It seems that the latest generation of EV chargers will be managed to share the load, part of the charging procedure will be to specify when the vehicle will be required so charging can be managed to balance the load across the charging window.

Mike

Samsaranda22/01/2022 16:08:42
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1408 forum posts
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BR

My wife at this time won’t allow me to put a wind turbine in our garden what chance would I have trying to get a tractor in there, just joking but there’s always a way to beat a crisis. Dave W

duncan webster22/01/2022 18:27:51
3945 forum posts
63 photos
..........

Government Energy Policy has to plan 50 years ahead and they are very concerned about the future of energy supply. The way electricity is made and used is changing............

............

UK governments can't plan ahead further than the next election, which is why we're in the mess we're in now. Get some nuclear stations up pronto, then we can have clean CO2 free power whenever we want it, not having to wait for the wind to blow.

Vic22/01/2022 18:54:02
3060 forum posts
8 photos

You may need a smart meter at some point?

**LINK**

Samsaranda22/01/2022 19:05:17
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1408 forum posts
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That’s so true Duncan.

Peter Spink22/01/2022 19:16:56
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123 forum posts
41 photos

Quote <firstly a smart meter can disconnect the customer any time that the supplier wishes to reduce the loading on the supply circuit to . . . . . >

How?
I stand to be corrected, but does a smart meter incorporate a contactor or a solid state device that can cut off an 80 A supply?

Former Member22/01/2022 19:33:45
1085 forum posts

[This posting has been removed]

Samsaranda22/01/2022 19:36:30
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1408 forum posts
5 photos

Peter inside the smart meter is a solenoid and a pair of large electrical contacts specifically for disconnecting and restoring power. Enter the question “can a smart meter disconnect power supplies” into your internet search engine and it’s confirmed in numerous postings. Dave

Mark Rand22/01/2022 19:41:09
1239 forum posts
28 photos

Mother in Law's SMETS1 meter has an external solid state relay in the outdoor meter cublcle. I see no reason to believe that modern meters shouldn't have an interna one.

However, I suspect that without legislation, contract terms or a court order, disconnecting a domestic user's supply would be illegal.

Chris Evans 622/01/2022 19:53:55
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2052 forum posts
Posted by Samsaranda on 22/01/2022 10:01:48:

Chris

you don’t only have to fit solar panels to a roof, plenty of people have ground level installations. Dave W

Enough land/garden for normal domestic use but no surplus for panels. The house is a converted stable and a bit querky/unconventional.

SillyOldDuffer22/01/2022 20:02:53
Moderator
8512 forum posts
1914 photos
Posted by duncan webster on 22/01/2022 18:27:51:
..........

Government Energy Policy has to plan 50 years ahead and they are very concerned about the future of energy supply. The way electricity is made and used is changing............

............

UK governments can't plan ahead further than the next election, which is why we're in the mess we're in now. Get some nuclear stations up pronto, then we can have clean CO2 free power whenever we want it, not having to wait for the wind to blow.

Hinkley C will have taken at least 41 years before any power reaches the grid. First aired in public about 1985 and after various delays, generation is currently scheduled to start in 2026. And that date might slip. Project spans seven Prime Ministers: 5 Conservative, 2 Labour.

Nuclear development may seem exceptionally slow, but most large infrastructure projects take decades - HS2 launched in 2009 and Phase 2b isn't scheduled to start until 2033. So I agree about energy supply, it's time to get an urgent move on!

Dave

Peter Spink22/01/2022 20:03:38
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123 forum posts
41 photos
Posted by Mark Rand on 22/01/2022 19:41:09

However, I suspect that without legislation, contract terms or a court order, disconnecting a domestic user's supply would be illegal.

Quite so.

With medical kit and freezers etc. this would never get past first base.

Not that I'm inclined to get a not so smart meter. The only advantage would have been the option of low tarif at times of low demand. No chance of that now!

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