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Can you recommend a "medium-speed" epoxy adhesive? (e.g. "30 minute" or "60 minute")

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SillyOldDuffer18/01/2022 16:31:23
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/01/2022 16:03:14:
Posted by John Smith 47 on 18/01/2022 15:35:13:

.
...

...
  1. ...
  2. Yes … You really need a VAT invoice for this trivial sum

Oh well secret

MichaelG.

As John insisted on next day delivery, the courier fee must have been more than the cost of the glue. Perhaps the total isn't a trivial sum...

Claiming back VAT means John's project is definitely a business operation. I don't mind, others might.

Dave

Frances IoM18/01/2022 16:57:15
1247 forum posts
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I guess the value of free advice is zero unlike a paid consultancy those offering advice can't be sued though to be honest I think it strains the ethos of the Message Board Forum.
Dave S18/01/2022 17:07:40
361 forum posts
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The benefits of free advice are that if it goes wrong the end user gets to keep all the broken bits…

pgk pgk18/01/2022 17:47:14
2549 forum posts
293 photos

I used to buy my epoxy from 'HobbyKing' who stock 5,15,20 and 30 min versions. It was rarely used for anything critical but didn't let me down. I favoured the slowest set which I'd expect to give the stronger bond.

As for VAT.. When I was in business and having to do the returns, then it became a matter of determination to claim every possible last penny....

pgk

Baz18/01/2022 18:52:12
705 forum posts
2 photos

Francis I also think it strains the ethos of the forum especially when a particular person asks multiple questions, at present we are asked about glue and another post is about cutting with an angle grinder along with previous posts about angles on bits of metal. I will help anyone if I can but I think the posters constant questions and his attitude is extracting the urine. I do not feel that this is what the forum is for, there are many professionals who will help him with his product development, he will of course have to pay but he can get his VAT back.

Ramon Wilson18/01/2022 19:23:22
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1283 forum posts
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Posted by John Smith 47 on 18/01/2022 15:32:10:

Zap Epoxy seems to have a lot fans here.
Out of interest, what specifically is so good about Zap epoxy?
e.g. Is it just it's bonding strength? Or ease of application.... or what?

J

Over many years I have mainly used epoxy in aeromodelling and making sailing models - occasionally but quite rarely in model engineering where I prefer JB Weld.

At one time there was an extremely good epoxy made by Isopon called SuperEpoxy. 20min or so set time and extremely strong but slightly flexible. I used this successfully without a single failure over several years but virtually overnight it became unavailable so I switched to other brands finally settling on Zap as it's near but not quite equal (in my eyes) to it. Apart from true standard Araldite most epoxies from cheap to expensive proved either brittle or rubbery.

If I could buy true Isopon Super epoxy again it would be a no brainer but in the meantime Zap for me is acceptable - until I've tried the Bob Smith Industries version that is.

I'm afraid I have no experience on VAT so cannot comment on that matter wink

Tug

John Smith 4719/01/2022 05:03:04
393 forum posts
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1. I'm sorry if my bothering to claiming my VAT back (or not claiming VAT back) for some reason offends anyone here.

2. No, I am not retired.

3. Yes, I am employed. Self-employed.

4. No, I am emphatically NOT promoting my business or my products. (We have been through all this before.... deep sigh).  In fact I have studiously avoided describing them in any detail.

5. My business is a start-up, that is very much self-funded. Most people here probably have much more money to throw at their tools than I do.

6. Nowhere in the rules/terms & conditions of this site does it say "no inventors".

7. Many people here seem to enjoy my threads, and have expressed as much. But if any of my naive/beginners questions bore your or in some way irritate, please do not answer them. I have mostly been pretty self-restrained in my answers to some of your personal/off-topic comments, but do not guarantee to stay that way.

Please can we try stay civilised here. 

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 05:06:09

Steviegtr19/01/2022 05:11:10
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2421 forum posts
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Without reading all the comments here is my experience with epoxy.

It is very temperature dependant. Mix a 2 part epoxy in a low temp & it will take a long time to set. Mix at over 20 deg C & it will set very quickly.

From a person who uses this stuff a lot. I use quite a lot of glass fibre resin, this mixes with a 1 to 3 % hardener. At 3% it will set in around 20mins at 18 deg C.

In hot weather using a 1% hardener it will set in around 10 mins.

Hope this helps.

Steve.

Ramon Wilson19/01/2022 08:17:59
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1283 forum posts
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John

I have tried three times to answer your specific questions on the best epoxy and their qualities. I have no bloody interest in your VAT issues

No I'm not being uncivilised but I am being straight - it's the last help you get from this direction

Tug

Clive B19/01/2022 08:45:32
43 forum posts
21 photos

If people aren't aware Araldite also supply a range (incl. fast and slow) of epoxies aimed at the professional end of the market under the brand "Araldite 2000". When I was still working I used Araldite 2000 on occasions and was very impressed with its performance which exceeded the normal consumer equivalent by a large margin. However, for dispensing small quantities an applicator gun is required which ensures that the two components are well mixed in the correct proportions. Of course, attention needs to be paid to temperature during curing.

These higher performance adhesives, unsurprisingly, come in a a higher cost. But then the OP said he is in a commercial setting.....

I am sure that other brands manufacture equivalent professional products but I have no experience of these. Having said that I am a happy user of Zap and JB Weld and get adequate results, for my amateur purposes, by mixing two dollops of resin with a spatula.

Clive

Andy_G19/01/2022 10:01:22
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166 forum posts

On the topic of epoxy adhesives:

I recently found UHU Endfest 300 which has worked very well for me so far (on aluminium). It has a reasonable datasheet at:

https://media2.supermagnete.de/docs/uhu_plus_endfest_300_eng.pdf Link

Several things are of interest to me:

1) It retains some strength to 140°C

2) It allows the mixing ratio to be varied to optimise its properties (between brittle and flexible).

3) Although a relatively slow curing adhesive, the datasheet gives information on heat curing which dramatically reduces the full cure time (to as little as 5 minutes if the work can withstand 180°C).

4) It is fairly cheap! - Especially compared to other "high temperature" epoxies (whose performance appears similar).

If the OP is prepared / able to heat the parts, it may be an option.

For others, it may be a useful 'high temperature' epoxy (I haven't looked at the Zap products - there may be something similar in their range).

John Smith 4719/01/2022 11:24:48
393 forum posts
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Posted by Ramon Wilson on 19/01/2022 08:17:59:

John

I have tried three times to answer your specific questions on the best epoxy and their qualities. I have no bloody interest in your VAT issues

No I'm not being uncivilised but I am being straight - it's the last help you get from this direction

Tug

Tug - What are you talking about? I have been extremely grateful for all your comments and have responded accordingly. In fact I intend to buy some Zap's 30 minute Epoxy shortly.

I have no bloody interest in TELLING you knowing about my VAT issues either but the endless snide commentary in this thread from others about such matters forced my hand.

Peace, brother.

J

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 11:26:49

John Smith 4719/01/2022 13:07:49
393 forum posts
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@Jeff Dayman - Good suggestion. I have used the "ignore member" function on you. And would be delighted if you would do the same if it would help you keep your negative, unconstructive, offensive, border-line hysterical personal attacks to yourself.
 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 13:15:52

John Smith 4719/01/2022 15:40:34
393 forum posts
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Posted by Ramon Wilson on 17/01/2022 16:59:27:
Posted by John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:35:14:

Do any of you have experience of Zap's "Z-Poxy 30 Minute" epoxy resin adhesive?

If it sets in 30 minutes, in practice what is it's working time...15 minutes?

J


PS Re buying from eBay, I need VAT invoices. And they seem to be the exception on eBay! Whereas on the dreaded eBay they are generally (albeit not always) automatic.

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:36:05

Yes - Zap 30 min has around 25-30 mins work time depending on the ambient temperature. It my workshop - usually around 65C it will begin to gel after about 20mins. Once that begins there is little time left to work with.

I find a good hour has to pass before handling it with safety but that of course depends on what the workpiece actually is.

Tug

The BSI 15 minute stuff is starting to set too fast for me. It is starting to string at 10 minutes, even at a slightly low room temperature (18C / 65F)....

So I have now ordered some Zap 30min from Als Hobbies on eBay. Should arrive on Friday. Thank your for the suggestion.

J

Peter Greene 🇨🇦19/01/2022 18:24:23
488 forum posts
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Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 11:24:48:

the endless snide commentary in this thread from others ......

Aren't you being a little disingenuous?

You have an idea for a product which you want to make/market. Your skills and experience in metalworking etc are limited to non-existent. So you start multiple threads here to leech the information you need from others so you can turn that information into a profit (for you).

While some may go along with it, is it any wonder that others find it objectionable, even repulsive?

And yes, I'm sure you would prefer those people to just go away and leave you alone. I don't think it will happen.

John Smith 4719/01/2022 21:28:31
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 19/01/2022 18:24:23:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 11:24:48:

the endless snide commentary in this thread from others ......

 

Aren't you being a little disingenuous?

You have an idea for a product which you want to make/market. Your skills and experience in metalworking etc are limited to non-existent. So you start multiple threads here to leech the information you need from others so you can turn that information into a profit (for you).

While some may go along with it, is it any wonder that others find it objectionable, even repulsive?

And yes, I'm sure you would prefer those people to just go away and leave you alone. I don't think it will happen.

> Aren't you being a little disingenuous?
Absolutely not.

> So you start multiple threads here to leech the information you need from
> others so you can turn that information into a profit (for you)

"Leech" is an extremely offensive way of putting it. I am learning from others. And since when was that such a bad thing? If only there was more of it in this world, the world would be a vastly better place.

Yes, one can but dream. But the reality is that... so far... THERE IS NO PROFIT.

And evidently some of you think that I am a total idiot-dreamer and will never make a profit. Well.... which is it? Am I a genius engineer & entrepreneur who against all the odds is about to make a fortune, or am I a total idiot?

You can't have it both ways.

Yes, IF there was a nice fat profit, then sure I could hire full-time expert professionals and might not be messing about on forums asking fundamental questions, and sure maybe people might possibly complain that I wasn't paying professional experts for their hard-won knowledge. But given that THERE IS NO PROFIT, paying experts is simply not an option.

And until there IS some profit, just what exactly is anyone complaining about?

But what's with this "war on profit" stuff, in any case? Why can't we ALL ask each other whatever questions we like and ALL make a profit? Wouldn't we all like to see products and the things around us improve? And for those who take huge person risks... in the hope of improving the world with new and better products... to be fairly rewarded?

Or have I stumbled into some strange communist cell, pretending to be people who enjoy working with tools and doing model engineering?

Moreover personal agendas aside, it turns out that the rules of the forum do NOT prohibit professional engineers & the like from participating. What is forbidden is promoting & selling stuff.

Look, some people ARE enjoying my threads and they have articulated as much, but if you personally don't enjoy them, then please do the rest of us a favour and leave. Nobody wants to read all this bickering garbage.... we're here to have fun discussing tools!

But if you want to carry on bringing negative energy, attacking me personally, and generally being anti-social then, Peter Green I can't stop you.

Enough.

Seriously.

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 21:35:10

Neil Wyatt21/01/2022 14:46:09
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May I suggest a good policy if you find any member's postings irritating is to use the ignore button, rather than instructing other people to do so.

The whole point of the button is to avoid the unpleasant exchanges exemplified above.

Also, John Smith is not advertising here, but seeking comment and advice. If we banned everyone whose postings relate to their work, a large chunk of the forum and much of its interest would disappear. Commercial projects are as valid as any other discussion, if anyone finds this offensive, then I suggest they don't participate in such discussions.

Neil

Peter Greene 🇨🇦21/01/2022 16:25:22
488 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/01/2022 14:46:09:

The whole point of the button is to avoid the unpleasant exchanges exemplified above.

 

Please read the posts again. Any "unpleasantness" is entirely John Smith's (to which I had no intention of responding until your post). Mine was simply a reasonable, measured response to what I quoted. I take it we are still allowed to express opinions in reasonable terms?

In the light of your other comments, you might want to read all John Smith's multiple threads and take them as a whole.

Edited By Peter Greene 🇨🇦 on 21/01/2022 16:29:45

John Smith 4725/01/2022 23:23:27
393 forum posts
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Crumbs. I rather hope that people here have better things to do with their lives that read "all" of John Smiths posts.

Ignore button being fingered... Ooops!

Anthony Kendall26/01/2022 10:21:04
148 forum posts

And all this because someone asks about a more suitable epoxy? Amazing.

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