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How can I bond ABS (plastic) to NRL (rubber)?

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John Smith 4714/01/2022 14:58:21
393 forum posts
12 photos

Hello

I need to glue/bond ABS plastic (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) onto NRL (Natural Rubber Latex). Any suggestions?

Note: The idea glue/adhesive should permit a few minutes of working time (e.g. 5 minutes) to allow for slight re-positioning and it would then bond as hard as possible, as soon as possible after that.

The bond would not need to flex. The bond must not in any way creep - e.g. due to gentle sustained forces – after it has set.

J

PS I have been trying "Bostik 218M Latex Adhesive" but it doesn't bond particularly well onto the ABS.

Edited By John Smith 47 on 14/01/2022 14:59:30

Dave S14/01/2022 17:52:14
361 forum posts
90 photos

Are you covering the abs with a layer of rubber, joining abs to rubber to something else?

Geometry of the joint may make a difference to recommendations.

Do you need the glue to be thin as possible, or is a thick glue line acceptable?

Often rubber bits on plastic are 2 shot moulded - the plastic is molded the loaded into another mold and the rubber injected. The surface design of the plastic substrate and the heat assist in a bond.

More info will help a better answer, but in the absence of it (cos it’s bound to be secret and “not relevant&rdquo I would look at a SikaFlex. Not going to set in 5mins tho. If quick set is actually required then an impact modified cyanoacrylate is where I’d start.

Michael Gilligan14/01/2022 18:01:10
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20057 forum posts
1040 photos

Double-sided tape [as used by carpet-fitters] might do the job neatly.

… but, of course, it has zero working-time, so you would need to get positioning ‘right first time’

MichaelG.

Ady114/01/2022 18:09:53
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5065 forum posts
734 photos

pinkgrip

Everything I've done with it has kept going and going

Changed the angle of my bandsaw blade a year ago by using it on rubber/aluminium and here we are a year later with no issues so far

Edited By Ady1 on 14/01/2022 18:23:15

JasonB14/01/2022 18:34:24
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Moderator
22560 forum posts
2634 photos
1 articles

If it was not for the slow setting requirement then Loctite 380 "blackmax" would do nicely

Engine Doctor ( Phil )14/01/2022 19:58:09
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18 forum posts
1 photos

Use a slow setting Cyanocryalate (cyano or super Glue) for a permanent no creep bond . Generally the thicker superglues are slower.

John Smith 4714/01/2022 21:09:51
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Dave S on 14/01/2022 17:52:14:

Are you covering the abs with a layer of rubber, joining abs to rubber to something else?

Geometry of the joint may make a difference to recommendations.

Do you need the glue to be thin as possible, or is a thick glue line acceptable?

Often rubber bits on plastic are 2 shot moulded - the plastic is molded the loaded into another mold and the rubber injected. The surface design of the plastic substrate and the heat assist in a bond.

More info will help a better answer, but in the absence of it (cos it’s bound to be secret and “not relevant&rdquo I would look at a SikaFlex. Not going to set in 5mins tho. If quick set is actually required then an impact modified cyanoacrylate is where I’d start.

> Are you covering the abs with a layer of rubber, joining abs to rubber to something else?
I am using strip of rubber to create a hinge between two plates of ABS.

> Do you need the glue to be thin as possible, or is a thick glue line acceptable?
It doesn't need to be super-thin. I suppose up to 0.2mm thickness would just about be okay.

> Often rubber bits on plastic are 2 shot moulded
Yes, absolutely. This is a model for exactly that.

Since asking the question I have been experimenting further, with various glues. I am finding them all extremely hard to apply evenly and the result quickly gets exceedingly bumpy and messy.

But in my experience, what has been an absolute game-changer, for producing really smart results, is if one can use some sort of glue-tranferring tape, so long as it's thin enough.

e.g. This stuff "3M 9088-200 High Performance Double Coated Tape"


**LINK**
https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/p/d/b40070391/

It certainly is amazingly tacky! (i.e. sticky) The results can be seriously smart, and with care it is slightly (but not very) repositionable, in that with patience you can generally peel it back off a solid surface.

However I suspect that it doesn't ever form a solid bond. And so when the hinge is under long-term, sustained pressure, particularly if the item is accidentally left in direct sunlight, I suspect that it may fail... despite what the specs claim!

J

John Smith 4714/01/2022 21:17:26
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Ady1 on 14/01/2022 18:09:53:

pinkgrip

Everything I've done with it has kept going and going

Changed the angle of my bandsaw blade a year ago by using it on rubber/aluminium and here we are a year later with no issues so far

Edited By Ady1 on 14/01/2022 18:23:15

Have you tried Pinkgrip with rubber?

I couldn't see any mention of rubber...
https://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/adhesives/grab-adhesives/pinkgrip/

Robert Atkinson 214/01/2022 21:24:18
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1195 forum posts
20 photos

+ 1 for 3M VHB tape suggested by John. If you need fiddle time wet one of the surfaces with water.

Second choice would be a toughened acrylic adhesive such as Loctite Multibond 330. Permabond also make these. They are a clear glue (like UHU) but it needs an activator brushed on one surface. In this case ativator goes on the ABS

Robert G8RPI.

John Smith 4714/01/2022 21:37:40
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Philip Fearn on 14/01/2022 19:58:09:

Use a slow setting Cyanocryalate (cyano or super Glue) for a permanent no creep bond . Generally the thicker superglues are slower.

I did try a couple of different types of Superglue. One had extremely strong instant grab and was an instant disaster. The other was slightly less aggressive, but there was very little repositioning and the rubber quickly swelled like crazy causing it to curl. Also CA seems to denature the rubber, and any spillage on the front surface will leave a nasty reflective marking.

If all else fails, I could probably get it to work... but to be honest I've always rather hated CA, because:
- the fumes rather sting the eyes,
- it requires a good fit (i.e. not good at filling in any gaps) and
- it's such a nightmare to clean up any spillage - particularly if it gets on the your skin!


John Smith 4714/01/2022 21:46:20
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 14/01/2022 21:24:18:

+ 1 for 3M VHB tape suggested by John. If you need fiddle time wet one of the surfaces with water.

Interesting suggestion. For precision work, would you literally paint water on with a paintbrush? Or try to use a fine spray/mist? Either way does the bond end up being just as strong as normal?

J


Robert Atkinson 215/01/2022 15:15:15
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1195 forum posts
20 photos

Spray / mist is best. A tiny amount, literaly a drop in a liter of washing up liquid can help with wetting. Final bond is just as good as dry but takes longer. pressing on join forces the water out.
It's similar to how car "wraps" are applied

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 15/01/2022 15:16:31

John Smith 4715/01/2022 16:50:31
393 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 15/01/2022 15:15:15:

Spray / mist is best. A tiny amount, literaly a drop in a liter of washing up liquid can help with wetting. Final bond is just as good as dry but takes longer. pressing on join forces the water out.
It's similar to how car "wraps" are applied

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 15/01/2022 15:16:31

Extremely interesting. I now just need to find a sprayer somewhere!

Out of interest, do you happen to know whether the bond itself ever properly sets/hardens over time? Or whether it just stays super-sticky...

J

Frances IoM15/01/2022 17:49:10
1247 forum posts
28 photos
ask a friend for an empty perfume bottle - they usually produce a fine mist.
Robert Atkinson 215/01/2022 18:58:03
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1195 forum posts
20 photos

3M VHB stays flexable long term. It' used for things like sticking th aluminium sides of commercial vehicles on.

Gerhard Novak15/01/2022 21:16:55
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109 forum posts
114 photos

I would be careful with long term bond strength. If one of the materials contains a softener (I suppose the NR compound would, I am not sure about the tape itself) you could get softener migration which could either make the material brittle or slimy sticky in the contact area. Best thing is to try, it may be fine for a long time.

I don't think UV is a problem for the 3M material, there are many additives on the market which prevent accelerated ageing by UV rays.

John Smith 4720/01/2022 22:57:41
393 forum posts
12 photos

OK, 3M's VHB is a failure.
I am using the Natural Rubber Latex (NRL) as a hinge and the peeling forces are too great for it.


RECAP
- I don't want to use Superglue (/CyanoAcrylate) type glues as they are too aggressive and any surplus instantly messes up the surface of the NRL.

I would love to find a new "general purpose" adhesive that:
- Sets properly (must at least be "fingernail proof" )
- Once set it remains highly bendable & flexible
- Can bond well to rubber and most plastics (e.g. PS/ABS... maybe Nylon too??)
- Can bonds "most things to most things" (including woods and metals)
- Allows at least few minutes of repositioning time (no instantaneous grab)
- Isn't too aggressive (e.g. doesn't immediately denature rubber)

And as a bonus, if possible it:
- Doesn't need to be mixed
- Is clear


e.g. Have any of you folks tried:


A. Unibond Repair Extreme (now Henkel)

B. Dowsil 732 ("Multi-Purpose Silicone Sealant" )

C. Elastosil E41 from Wacker ("Moisture Curing Silicone Rubber" )


D. Loctite Plastic Bonder (2 part epoxy, designed for plastics)


Or do you have any other suggestions/personal favourite "general purpose" glues that might work?

Many thanks

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 20/01/2022 22:58:15

Dave S21/01/2022 08:22:37
361 forum posts
90 photos

When hunting a Unicorn it is usually best to start with the Unicorn breeders

Henkel, Sika both have very helpful technical teams

Gerhard Novak21/01/2022 08:43:59
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109 forum posts
114 photos

If you want a really good bond from a tape try a worktop edge one, like UNIKA worktop tape. available for 6£ from screwfix. Bond is incedible strong, tape is quite thin.

What I said a few posts up is still valid - you don't know about the long term performance.

Robert Atkinson 221/01/2022 08:59:39
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1195 forum posts
20 photos

Rubber to ABS with high dynamic peel forces is a severe challenge for any adhesive.
Peel was not mentioned in your original post.
Sikaflex might do it given long enought to cure.

I wish you luck but won't be placing any bets......

Robert G8RPI.

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