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Help! Identification for a live steam model required

Help! Trying to identify a 5" Live Steam Rolling Chassis

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rob worthington15/12/2021 13:20:02
6 forum posts
16 photos

Afternoon all. I recently bought this 5" Live Steam rolling chassis at an auction and I am trying to find out what I have bought! I believe it may be a Britannia Class 7 Pacific but not sure. I would really like to know what the model is and who might have made it so I can then find out what is required to complete it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. More pics in my public album. Thanks


Howard Lewis15/12/2021 15:25:17
6005 forum posts
14 photos

It may help if: to find the size / spacing of the main drivers and scale them up to see if they match those on a Britannia.

Ditto for details like brake rigging, or trailing bogie. It bis probably the detail which will when compared with possible prototypes will allow you tom find out which one it was.

If your first guess wasn't right, you may have quite a few Pacifics to compare with the model until you run it to earth!


Nicholas Farr15/12/2021 15:49:49
3310 forum posts
1524 photos

Hi Rob, Blackgates do castings etc. and drawings for a 5" Oliver Cromwell. Blackgates

Regards Nick.

Brian Baker 115/12/2021 16:28:13
194 forum posts
36 photos

Hi Rob, I might be wrong, but I think you have bought an ex Winson or Modelworks kit built Britannia. the look and style of certain fittings leads me to believe this.

A good start, because after the bits you have, every thing went wrong for these kits.



norm norton15/12/2021 16:32:52
183 forum posts
9 photos

I would say that it could be a Britannia. The trailing pony truck looks right and the upright closing plate on the drag box that stands under the cab is nearly right. The frames have the correct side profile.

But a really strange feature is the missing large central, horizontal stretcher. Also odd are the double openings (drain cock rods?) in the drag box.

There is always the possibility that bits do not match the drawings because the builder changed things or used what was available. Perrier/Spink wheels are 6 9/16" diameter on the treads and the driver axles are at 7 7/16 " centres.

The only drawings I know of were from Perrier and these have for many years been rebranded by N Spink and sold by Blackgates.


Brian Baker 116/12/2021 07:43:25
194 forum posts
36 photos

Greetings Rob, could you check what metal has been used for the large drag box at the rear of you loco, Modelworks tended to use Aluminium for this, and other parts, certainly in 71/4 inch gauge.


Brian B

norm norton16/12/2021 09:55:14
183 forum posts
9 photos

Brian is likely to be right about it being from a kit. Might explain the loco being built to that stage but without the cylinders and motion kits arriving.

The later kit Modelworks Britannia drag box is brass/bronze. Many parts on the earlier Winson were aluminium. Also scratch those cast stretchers to see. A Perrier has fabricated, silver soldered steel stretchers.

I do wonder if the earlier Winson did not have the big, flat top stretcher fitted, or it has not been bolted in yet by the builder?

Also, take out some of the big setscrews from the frames and see if they are metric threads, to confirm a kit.


rob worthington16/12/2021 15:41:56
6 forum posts
16 photos

Thank you for all of your suggestions and ideas, much appreciated.

Brian Baker 116/12/2021 16:24:36
194 forum posts
36 photos

Norm, the big flat stretcher was an after thought, added to the later batches of 5 inch Britannia kits, and offered to the 71/4 builders.


Brian B

rob worthington17/12/2021 13:19:33
6 forum posts
16 photos

I have been reliably informed that this is indeed a Perrier Britannia 5" Live Steam chassis. £5k just for a boiler for it! Thanks again for all your help, its much appreciated. Ill be putting this on ebay next year so we will see where we get to!

norm norton17/12/2021 14:26:00
183 forum posts
9 photos


It would be very interesting if you could tell us what your 'reliable informant' has identified that conclusively shows that this is a Perrier scratch build and not the Winson parts that Brian and I think it might be.


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