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How much is a life worth

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BOB BLACKSHAW19/11/2021 16:11:00
457 forum posts
117 photos

Looking on line this morning the BBC reported that from next year any body driving a vehicle using a had held device not just a phone but I think gaming and video etc will be fined £200. It stated too many people have been seriously injured or killed by divers using devices whilst driving. So in my opinion the government put £200 as a worth of a life or serious injury which cane be life changing. As a cyclist for over 50 years I have never felt so vulnerable riding my bike as I've witnessed phone use many many times. £200 is not a deterrent it's a slap on the wrist, a years ban and retake of the driving test would help stop or make people thing first before using a device.

Bob

Tony Pratt 119/11/2021 16:27:16
2023 forum posts
12 photos

Phone/device use whilst driving a vehicle should be in the same league as drink driving.

Tony

HOWARDT19/11/2021 16:37:59
932 forum posts
39 photos

It should mean removal of licence for a period of time. Over the years I don't think I have not seen the phone in use in any type of vehicle. I remember one dinner time about twenty years ago see a double decker bus driver using his phone while in service with passengers on board and moving. It is still too prevalent particularly among van drivers, a guy on the radio this dinner was excusing it by saying as a delivery driver his van is his office, well most offices don't move.

Brian G19/11/2021 16:39:58
845 forum posts
38 photos

In the 19th century it was discovered that It doesn't really matter what the penalty is if a law isn't enforced. Last prosecution numbers I can find for handheld mobile phone use were published in 2009 when 13,000 drivers were convicted, at the same time as a survey showed that 29% of drivers were using hand-held mobile phones. The number of traffic police has fallen rapidly over the last few years, and the excuse that cameras make up the shortfall doesn't hold water for this offence.

Brian G

Ian Parkin19/11/2021 17:11:50
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1035 forum posts
243 photos

I fully agree that looking at a mobile screen/texting/watching a video or playing a video game is dangerous and should be dealt with. But holding a phone to your ear…is that so unsafe?

you can have a phone call on hands free legally

you can have a conversation with a passenger legally

you can drive a car with one arm legally with no other modifications.

you can get a cigarette/cigar out and light it with fire…legally?

though someone was prosecuted for eating a kit Kat sometime ago 

you can adjust anything built into the car whilst driving legally…..though going through menus on a modern dash display fills me with dread .

so is holding the phone to your ear so bad?

Edited By Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:13:09

Edited By Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:14:07

Nicholas Farr19/11/2021 17:12:10
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3418 forum posts
1592 photos

Hi, hands free phones are still allowed though, which I did have one years ago with the old Nokia 6310i when I used to be on callout, but I did get distracted once while driving, but luckily there was no was no other traffic or people about, stopped using it while driving after that and haven't had one since and I think all phone calls should be banned altogether while driving. I agree the £200 is not much deterrent, as you still see van & truck drivers using them while on the move.

Regards Nick.

Ady119/11/2021 17:19:24
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5170 forum posts
738 photos

I use the common sense system. Don't cycle on the road

I find it amusing that people worry about covid19 and vaxxes and the like... then they get onto a pushbike and cycle on a main road because the government guys tell them it's an ok thing to do

It's a very high risk thing to do, especially if you're an old duffer

My bruv has just come from somewhere like Amsterdam where its all done on the pavement, bikes, escooters etc and apparently its a foot pedestrians nightmare

BOB BLACKSHAW19/11/2021 17:46:16
457 forum posts
117 photos

Last post about not cycling on the road. I'm a life long cyclist and have clocked up over 200,000 miles, I've been fortunate that I have survived but have had many close calls. Your right I now have stopped cycling on the road and cycle to Sandy on a cycle route off road because I'm worried about the traffic. With all this rhetorical about global warming you would of thought cycling would be King not the car.

Bob

SillyOldDuffer19/11/2021 17:58:47
Moderator
8883 forum posts
1998 photos
Posted by Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:11:50:

I fully agree that looking at a mobile screen/texting/watching a video or playing a video game is dangerous and should be dealt with. But holding a phone to your ear…is that so unsafe?

you can have a phone call on hands free legally

you can have a conversation with a passenger legally

you can drive a car with one arm legally with no other modifications.

you can get a cigarette/cigar out and light it with fire…legally?

though someone was prosecuted for eating a kit Kat sometime ago

you can adjust anything built into the car whilst driving legally…..though going through menus on a modern dash display fills me with dread .

so is holding the phone to your ear so bad?

...

Mythbuster's put their team round a track with various simple driving tasks and a few surprises. They all did the course whilst legally drunk and again whilst sober, but using a Mobile Phone. (California level is same as the UK.) Conclusively shown that using a mobile phone on the move is more dangerous than drink driving - misjudgements galore, many of which the drivers were unaware! The camera showed them clipping cones, and missing turns and signs.

Mobile phones are much more distracting than listening to broadcast radio or music. It's because phones happen to use the same bit of brain as driving and we can't multi-task.

My employer forbade staff from using any form of mobile whilst driving car pool vehicles, including hands-free. Be nice to think they cared about their people! Actually, their records showed hands-free incidents were costing them enough to be worth banning mobiles entirely.

Dave

Bill Phinn19/11/2021 18:13:44
768 forum posts
114 photos
Posted by Ady1 on 19/11/2021 17:19:24:

I use the common sense system. Don't cycle on the road

My bruv has just come from somewhere like Amsterdam where its all done on the pavement, bikes, escooters etc and apparently its a foot pedestrians nightmare

If you found yourself in Amsterdam, then, can I assume you'd regard it as common sense not to walk anywhere?

 

 

Edited By Bill Phinn on 19/11/2021 18:14:01

Peter Greene 🇨🇦19/11/2021 18:24:08
557 forum posts
8 photos

Some of this can be exquisitely hypocritical. Here in Ontario, the politicians and police went on a campaign some time ago against distracted driving (from any cause **). This was hotly followed by the introduction of (commercial) giant video screens hanging from overpasses.

These screens are aimed specifically at drivers and blast commercials etc at them. They have prevailed despite complaints that they distract drivers and are even used by various levels of government to push "public service" messages.

** Of course, hands-free phone use is allowed even though there are many studies showing it is hardly less distracting than hands-on.

Nicholas Farr19/11/2021 18:44:32
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3418 forum posts
1592 photos

Hi, just been on the early evening news and the penalty will include 6 points on your licence as well as the £200, so two hits and that's your driving gone for a while. As far a cycling on the road goes, unless otherwise permitted on some sections, it is illegal to cycle on the pavements and you can be fined for doing so.

Regards Nick.

pgk pgk19/11/2021 18:51:42
2603 forum posts
293 photos

An email the other day from one of the comparison insurers informed me that 40% of collisions occur at night - followed by a string of suggestions as to keeping screens, lights etc clean.
Of course that means 60% collisions happen during the day, so night driving must be safer...

Yeah, we can all cherry-pick partial statistics...

Perhaps we should change the law - capital punishment for trivial offences, litter, speeding, drink-driving, fly-tipping and the like. At least with murder, there's usually some justification like infidelity or lack of money...

pgk

Martin Kyte19/11/2021 19:04:56
avatar
2787 forum posts
53 photos
Posted by BOB BLACKSHAW on 19/11/2021 16:11:00:

Looking on line this morning the BBC reported that from next year any body driving a vehicle using a had held device not just a phone but I think gaming and video etc will be fined £200. It stated too many people have been seriously injured or killed by divers using devices whilst driving. So in my opinion the government put £200 as a worth of a life or serious injury which cane be life changing. As a cyclist for over 50 years I have never felt so vulnerable riding my bike as I've witnessed phone use many many times. £200 is not a deterrent it's a slap on the wrist, a years ban and retake of the driving test would help stop or make people thing first before using a device.

Bob

Not sure of the logic there in equating the fine to the cost of a life. If using a mobile whilst driving was serious enought to warrent a penalty equating to the cost of a life then the penulty should be death or at least the equivalent tarrif for murder. This clearly demonstrates that the two cannnot be simply equated. In fact the penalty for causing a death whilst using a mobile is 8 years as demonstrated by the recent sentence handed down to a lorry driver who killed a child. The £200 and the six points is for just getting caught.

That said, personally I think it is perfectly possible to detect if a mobile is moving and on a road and turn it off automatically. If this prevents others in the car from using their devices well tough. Reasonable enough to prevent the ubiquitous use of mobiles whilst driving.

regards Martin

Clock polisher19/11/2021 19:16:12
22 forum posts
32 photos

With time on my hands I have recently been watching some of the police interceptor type tv programs.

They always show police drivers, some involved in high speed pursuits, taking one hand off the steering wheel to use their radio. This with another officer in the car as well.

Will this also now become illegal?

regards

David

Michael Gilligan19/11/2021 19:27:16
avatar
20289 forum posts
1064 photos
Posted by Clock polisher on 19/11/2021 19:16:12:

With time on my hands I have recently been watching some of the police interceptor type tv programs.

They always show police drivers, some involved in high speed pursuits, taking one hand off the steering wheel to use their radio. This with another officer in the car as well.

Will this also now become illegal?

regards

David

.

Probably not sad

If you watch some old episodes of Top Gear, you will see the presenters using CB [or similar] … in flagrant disregard of the spirit of the legislation : Exploiting the convenient loophole in the ‘phone-specific’ rules [which I suspect was put there to avoid inconveniencing the various Emergency Services drivers].

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Just found this, from an ‘authoritative’ source:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4505788/the-handheld-device-you-can-use-while-driving-and-even-lets-you-chat-to-pals/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/11/2021 19:36:01

DMB19/11/2021 19:36:13
1350 forum posts
1 photos

Just think about it, that kid got life, or rather, lost it.

So why not hit the culprits bloody hard, like doleing out prison terms and permanent cancellation of license.

Perhaps if any of you are parents you may think how would you feel about the guilty getting off with a light punishment?

Robert Atkinson 219/11/2021 20:07:17
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1240 forum posts
20 photos

This is typcal lawmaking just to make it easier to get a conviction and look like the politicians are doing something. There are existing laws coving being in control of a vehicle. These have been used long before cellphones to proscecute mobile radio users. The original cellphone law draft covered all types of hand held radio use. Then they realised that this would affect the emergency services so it was made specfic to cellphones. I reserve further comment until the changes are made law.

noel shelley19/11/2021 20:34:22
1442 forum posts
23 photos

Since Amsterdam has been mentioned, I was on one occasion on the verge of being done for not being proper control of my vehicle because I was wearing Clogs ! The national No1 cycle route is sent down a single track road in rural Norfolk, not withstanding the fact that this road is used by HUGE agricultural machine and during the harvest and beet season many large artics, is this a good idea ? Whilst the main road is busy, there is also room to avoid a cyclist ! I feel that far to many decisions are made in offices rather than in the field ! Noel

mark costello 119/11/2021 20:59:19
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724 forum posts
12 photos
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 19/11/2021 16:27:16:

Phone/device use whilst driving a vehicle should be in the same league as drink driving.

Tony

AAAHHH, My dollup of sanity for today.

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