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John Templeman08/11/2021 19:18:01
20 forum posts
15 photos

Hi all I have been lurking on here for sometime now and have started equipping my workshop with equipment, I currently have a warco 240 lathe and a warco gh 18 mill and a metal cutting saw. I am in the process of building my first stationary steam engine which I am really enjoying and I have to say finding challenging. Although I am happy with my lathe I have become obsessed with replacing it with a old english machine either a Myford or a Boxford AUD or BUD. I would want power cross feed on the machine. My question is do I really need power cross feed or is it something I think I have to have. Your input would be gratefully received. Many Thanks in advance John

Mike Henderson 108/11/2021 20:30:09
29 forum posts

Hello John and welcome

I think power cross feed falls into the nice but not essential category.

I survived 25+ years with first a Zyto (ugh!) then a non-pcf Super 7. My first taste of power cross feed was after buying a Kerry AG23 and subsequently a L-series Harrison. Interests change and workshops evolve and my current hobby lathe is once again a Myford. It doesn't have power cross feed so I'm converting it.

Yes, I could manage without but, having grown used to it, being without it would be a constant irritation. Only you can decide how you will feel but I'd be looking for a machine that had it ready fitted.

 

If anyone is wondering why I didn't follow my own advice, the later Myford was added while I expected to keep the Kerry. Subsequent downsizing of the home workshop meant one or the other had to go. For the work I do now, the Myford is a better fit,so..................

Regards

Mike

Edited By Mike Henderson 1 on 08/11/2021 20:46:42

Howard Lewis09/11/2021 10:19:33
6004 forum posts
14 photos

PCF is really nice to have to produce a constant finish.

Not an impossibility with hand feeding, though.

One of the first things that we were taught in the Training School was how to use both hands to rotate a handwheel at a reasonably constant rate. A useful skill, once acquired, and applicable to almost every machine tool..

Howard

Bazyle09/11/2021 12:10:51
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6295 forum posts
222 photos

If you have a battery electric drill make an adaptor so you can use that.
Moving from a 240 to a Myford would be a bit of a shock unless you only make small things,
A more relevant choice might be to decide if you want a QCGB as often the PCF gets thrown in with that.

SillyOldDuffer09/11/2021 12:39:44
Moderator
8461 forum posts
1882 photos

Posted by Mike Henderson 1 on 08/11/2021 20:30:09:

...

Yes, I could manage without but, having grown used to it, being without it would be a constant irritation. ...

+1 to constant irritation. And mine parts-off more reliably than I do, which probably relates to Howard's comment 'One of the first things that we were taught in the Training School was how to use both hands to rotate a handwheel at a reasonably constant rate.' I've never learned how to do that, and being unreasonably inconsistent need all the help I can get!

My milling machine is an extreme example: I could manage without it by doing lots of manual sawing, cold-chiselling, drilling and filing. Life is too short!

Dave

peak409/11/2021 12:44:19
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1671 forum posts
175 photos

Yes, power x feed is nice to have for a consistent finish, or maybe for those with arthritis etc.
My first lathe after the Simat 101 was a plain Super 7, so no Power x feed. (I still have it)
I then picked up a Warco 720, Super 7B clone, with gearbox and power x feed.
Most recently a larger Warco 1330, again with power x feed.

When I had the S7 as my only lather, I added an independent electric feed to the cross slide.
Very simple, and I never did get beyond the prototype stage, as I found it so useful.
I needed a guard making and a better way of quickly detaching it.

Essentially it is a gear sitting permanently behind the cross feed handle, which I can drive via a small geared DC motor powered by a Triang or Hornby train transformer. DC so I can run it in either direction.
Since it's a variable voltage supply, I can change the speed rate/feed on the fly, which works well.
If I'd had variable speed on the main spindle, like your Warco, it would make for a versatile combinations of changing speed and feed separately as the working diameter of the facing cut varies.

My Warco 720 has a VFD package, so I can vary the spindle speed on the fly, which is nice, as it helps to maintain a constant tool cutting speed, but the more conventional gear head does not. It's sometimes quite noticeable on the GH1330, mainly with carbide tooling, that whilst the tool mark across a workpiece is consistent with power x feed, the finish can vary as the effective cutting peed decreases towards the centre.

My choice would be variable spindle speed, with variable electric cross feed.
You almost have that now, with the addition of a simple motor drive.

Bill

Thor 🇳🇴09/11/2021 14:12:36
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1597 forum posts
45 photos

I have powered cross feed on my largest (and newest) lathe and I wouldn't be without it, it saves my old and worn wrists for a lot of pain. I did manage without PCF on my small and old lathe but now I tend to use my larger lathe. If you can find a Boxford AUD/BUD in good condition I would say buy it.

Thor

not done it yet09/11/2021 14:17:04
6716 forum posts
20 photos

My first lathe did not have PCF, but the eventual replacement did. The replacement’s replacement has even better PCF (faster) and is on a marque which was nearly twice as expensive as a myford, when new, but good ones cost less than half of most myford offerings, these days. They are out there.

Harry Wilkes09/11/2021 15:58:31
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1322 forum posts
65 photos

Welcome to the forum

H

noel shelley09/11/2021 16:33:38
1275 forum posts
21 photos

Welcome to the party my dear fellow ! Noel

John Templeman09/11/2021 17:19:07
20 forum posts
15 photos

Many Thanks for the input/advice and the welcome messages, this really is a friendly forum. I shall, I think keep my eye out for a nice boxford AUD/BUD as I am sure it will tick all the boxes. I like the idea of adapting my current set up including a separate motor for the PCF, however I feel that my yearning for a old english lathe will not subside until i actually have one and would like to keep the WM240 unmolested as I feel it would be more saleable.

John

Chris Crew12/11/2021 04:32:26
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193 forum posts

Personally, I am ambivalent about PCF, I have it on my Colchester and have hardly use it over the years but don't have it on my ML7-R and never missed it or wanted it when when I enhanced the machine to almost a S7 spec. less gearbox. Concerning changing to a different machine, again I would have mixed feelings. Whilst at my age I will never be changing my lathes now, and someone will get some nice machines when it is time to sell, if I were younger I would be seriously considering moving to a new far eastern machine. I know that there are some superb examples of Myford machines on the used market from owners that have cherished them, but I can't think that this would be quite the same case with the larger old British lathes because as these obsolete machines pass from owner to owner over the years they must surely wear and deteriorate however well they are cared for and sourcing spares becomes either prohibitively expensive or impossible.

John Templeman14/11/2021 08:44:14
20 forum posts
15 photos

Hi all, I have now come across what looks to be an absolute perfect example of a Myford Super Seven with Quick Change Gearbox with all the accessories I could ever need, I have not yet seen the lathe in the flesh, but have seen many, many photos. It is I think, if my research is correct a 1988-1991 machine, serial no. sk165501, the gentleman who owned this machine passed away and his wife and brother in law who are selling the equipment do not know anything about it regarding functions etc. will this have power cross feed ?. It was I believe bought new by the current owner and has only been used for model making so has not been abused in anyway. If it does have PCF I really feel that I should buy it and sell my WM240. What would the general consensus be from you guys ie is it a step in the right direction, any input most appreciated.

Chris Crew14/11/2021 09:30:42
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193 forum posts

If the lathe is that good you might consider buying it anyway because, in my opinion, PCF on a lathe the size of a Myford is a luxury that is nice to have but would hardly ever be used. If you have so many photos of the machine you should be able to see if it has PCF by simply looking at the apron or for the keyway in the lead-screw.

peak414/11/2021 12:11:46
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1671 forum posts
175 photos

Yes I would say it has power x feed, something which I use quite a lot, but each to their own.
From the S7 developments spreadsheet which used to be available on the old Yahoo group.

MYFORD SUPER 7
P/fix BUILD No S/fix YEAR MONTH G/B No CHANGE
SK 115830 1974 MARCH POWER CROSSFEED INTRODUCED
SK 120950 1974
SK 120965 1975 FEB SWING HEAD OILITE BUSHES GROUND ON OUTSIDE
SK 122657 1975 JUNE HARDENED STEEL SLIDE FEED NUT ON POWER CROSS FEED
SK 124461 H/STK HOLDING BOLTS NOW M8 X 1.25 G/BOX & APRON M6 X 1
SK 126004 1975 DEC MICROMETER DIA BORE INCREASRD FOR X SLIDE F/SCREW
SK 133966 M 1977
SK 136311 1977 NOV REDESIGNED POWER X FEED APRON AND L/CREW CAM
SK 142981 1978 APRIL COLOR CHANGE FROM GREY TO GREEN
SK 151622 M 1981 QC 150311
SK 158586 QC 158841
SK 166236 1996 QC 166238
1996 QC 168875
SK 198334 1994

Bill

John Templeman28/11/2021 20:00:44
20 forum posts
15 photos

Hi All, Just to keep you up to speed I am now the proud owner of a Myford Super Seven including all the accessories I will probably ever need. I have not yet used it anger as I am still studying the manuals and learning about the machine. I do have a couple of questions though. There is a 3 stage tensioned lever that is directly above the bull cog that when activated appears to lock the bull cog, there is no mention of this in the manuals, there is a small bracket next to the oil port at the front of the machine with a hole and alignment groove in it once again no mention of it in the literature and thirdly there are two small adjustable pointed screws, I think these are socket set screws on the counter shaft arm, what is the purpose of these? I will try to attach photos to illustrate, the photo below shows the lever and one of the pointed screws the other screw is directly opposite on the other side out of shot. 20211128_191053.jpg

John Templeman28/11/2021 20:03:20
20 forum posts
15 photos

Hi All again further to my last post the photo below shows the bracket on the front of the lathe (sorry its upside down) any ideas anybody20211128_191100.jpg

Edited By John Templeman on 28/11/2021 20:03:49

Chris Crew28/11/2021 21:42:15
avatar
193 forum posts

The plunger that engages with the bull-wheel is not a Myford component or accessory, it is a dividing attachment that someone has made and fitted. Because the S7 has a 60 tooth bull-wheel it can be used to index 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 and 60 divisions. This would be used with, say, a tool-post mounted drilling spindle or graduating attachment. You will find it very useful once you become more experienced with your lathe.

The two pointed screws on the counter-shaft are again not a standard Myford fitting. They have been fitted by someone to hold the Radford or George Thomas head-stock dividing attachment as is the small bracket above the gear-box. These additional components are identical to those on my own lathe which I fitted myself. The Radford/Thomas dividing attachment allow you to index the spindle through any number of divisions or degrees of arc and is very worthwhile accessory to make and use. I use mine mostly in conjunction with the Radford graduating attachment but is can be used for many operations that require accurate divisions.

You could do no better than to acquire a copy of George Thomas' Workshop Manual which will explain all this to you. It is not rocket science so don't be discouraged, if I can do it a mentally retarded chimpanzee can do it! Originally, I think, George Thomas published three books: one the Workshop Manual, one on Dividing and Graduating and another on building his Universal Pillar Tool. I believe that later all three books were condensed into a single expanded workshop manual, so check before you buy a used copy as to which edition you are getting. I think that the Manual is available from TEE Publishing and it is worth every single penny to the amateur craftsman, IMO.

Edited By Chris Crew on 28/11/2021 21:44:35

peak428/11/2021 21:43:45
avatar
1671 forum posts
175 photos

I would say it's an alternative design to Harold Hall's, bull wheel indexer.
This link will give you the general idea.
http://www.homews.co.uk/page541.html

Bill

Chris Crew28/11/2021 22:01:30
avatar
193 forum posts

Might I just add that, if the previous owned has not already done it, it is worthwhile coding the available divisions on the face of the bull-wheel with coloured dots with enamel paint or coloured permanent marker pen. This saves counting the teeth when using the bull-wheel as an index.

I can't remember off the top of my head the colours I have used, they were listed on a note-pad in the workshop, but it goes something like this: blue dot at tooth 1 and 30 for two divisions, red dot at tooth 1, 20 & 40 for three divisions all the way round to maybe a yellow dot at tooth 1,3,6, 9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,33,36,39,42,45,48,51,54,57,(60 or 1 again) for twenty divisions, I am sure you get the idea and its actually the tooth spaces that are marked, not the teeth themselves as, obviously, the plunger engages in the spaces.

Edited By Chris Crew on 28/11/2021 22:09:22

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