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What spray do you use to stop your tools from rusting?

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not done it yet27/10/2021 21:35:16
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At the moment, I am using approx 0.75 units of leccy per day. Mainly to dehumidify my workshop. I reckon these sprays and what-have-you will likely exceed the cost of the leccy used for my whole workshop?

peak427/10/2021 21:43:29
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Posted by John Smith 47 on 27/10/2021 13:24:01:

Bill I see you have been fan of Motorex for a while.

According to that link it works by leaving "a fine film of oil" behind.

Yes, Motorex Moto Protect looks interesting, and is certainly cheaper & easier to obtain than Boeshield t-9 spray.
How tacky is it when dry? (I don't want anything tacky but a fine waxy film would be fine)
Does it still lubricate over time / when 'dry'?
Can you use it to clean tools? (like you can with WD-40)
In practise, do you feel the need to remove it before using a hand tool? If so how would you remove it?

Edited By John Smith 47 on 27/10/2021 13:26:58

Moto Protect is not particularly tacky when dry in the same way that other sprays may be; it leaves a clear film which you hardly notice if you wipe it on/off with a rag which is damp with the stuff.
I use it for maintaining mirror polished carbon steel knife blades as well as on the motorbike(s), wiped on the knives, sprayed on the bikes.
The knives, like tools, stay in a reasonably clean environment, so stay clean themselves; Bikes get ridden, and it does seem to hold onto road and brake dust, but it just wipes off.
I'm out of stock at the moment, so I can't show any photos of it newly applied, but it doesn't need any cleaning off before use, other than a wipe over with a rag, like any other slightly oily product would do.
You could use it for cleaning things like WD40 etc, but it's considerably dearer, as I buy WD by the gallon.

I'm also a devotee of ACF-50 and its thicker companion (Corrosion Block), but didn't recommend it for tool protection in your case, as it certainly does leave a deposit. It would work well for putting a lathe in storage, and creeps quite well onto/into any missed bits.
It protects ferrous and non ferrous effectively, and was designed for the aviation industry with a price to match. (about £25 for 0.97l)
A couple of days ago I pressure treated the underneath and insides of the Landrover chassis etc.
I did the Disco and the van the week before; I use a schultz gun and a paraffin wash sprayer to apply it.
It works at a molecular level at the rust/iron interface, to kill corrosion and is gradually consumed over a year or so and needs reapplying at least annually.

Another product I use is Ballistol Universal oil, which seems popular with the shooting fraternity.
It claims to be compatible with plastics, wood, and leather, but originates in Germany, so post Brexit is harder to find in the UK, though some outdoor/countyside shops stock it, as well as gunsmiths.
I understand it's also used by instrument makers/repairers (mechanical that is as opposed to musical)
It does leave a rather odd lingering smell though, but it passes after a while.
https://ballistol.co.uk/

Bill

John Smith 4727/10/2021 23:28:48
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I've had a quick look at Ballistol, ACF-50 and Boesheild T-9. They all sound quite compelling.

In truth it sounds like there are a fair number of fine oils that one could use that would stop corrosion quite well in a workshop situation. However I don't like the idea of something which stays sticky, attracts dirt and gets basically everywhere.

Ballistol
I may be incorrect but Ballistol Universal Oil sounds like even after it has been applied as a thin film that it stays liquid. It also claims to create "an alkaline film" which helps stops corrosion from hand sweat. Intriguingly they claim that it is "widely used in the precision gauge and tool industry".

ACF-50
From what I have read, ACF-50 also stays liquid. This is good because it will work well at getting into the finest, molecular-sized cracks and driving out water.

The manufacturers say: "On new metal ACF-50 forms a self-healing barrier that prevents corrosion from starting. ACF-50 remains physically and chemically effective for up to two years."

However by staying liquid this it is bad because it may prove to be slightly sticky.

Worse, they seem to be saying that ACF-50 is also working chemically and for this reason it does need to be reapplied every year.

Boesheild T-9
From what the manufacturers are saying Boeshield T-9 does sound slightly different in that they say that it "dries to a waxy, waterproof finish without leaving a sticky film to attract dirt, dust or mud." and "T-9 dries to a clean, waxy, waterproof film that won’t wash off in rain, puddles or mud."

Tricky.... At the moment, for indoor use and well-box outdoor use, I am leaning towards, Boesheild T-9 - in fact I have just bought a small sample. And yes, my more delicate / precious tools are staying firmly indoors.

My thinking is that if something stays significantly liquid it's hard to imagine that it won't come off on your fingers and basically get everywhere, whereas a waxy finish may not.


That said, I often spend time in the West Highlands of Scotland and in my experience for any steel product where rust has already started to penetrated the paintwork... when it is going to be lashed with wind-driven salty rain, my bet is that none of the above would last 6 months!

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 27/10/2021 23:29:35

Pete.28/10/2021 00:33:11
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That said, I often spend time in the West Highlands of Scotland and in my experience for any steel product where rust has already started to penetrated the paintwork... when it is going to be lashed with wind-driven salty rain, my bet is that none of the above would last 6 months!

Edited By John Smith 47 on 27/10/2021 23:29:35

Could you explain exactly what you need protecting from corrosion, I read the opening post and got the idea it was for small hand tools, now you're talking about paintwork and salty wind driven rain making me think Land rover off roading in Scotland, what are you trying to achieve?

John Smith 4728/10/2021 01:30:54
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Posted by Pete. on 28/10/2021 00:33:11:


That said, I often spend time in the West Highlands of Scotland and in my experience for any steel product where rust has already started to penetrated the paintwork... when it is going to be lashed with wind-driven salty rain, my bet is that none of the above would last 6 months!

Edited By John Smith 47 on 27/10/2021 23:29:35

Could you explain exactly what you need protecting from corrosion, I read the opening post and got the idea it was for small hand tools, now you're talking about paintwork and salty wind driven rain making me think Land rover off roading in Scotland, what are you trying to achieve?

Me culpa please ignore the stuff about Scotland. Just an aside. No, I am looking for a fluid/spray to apply to my steel tools to stop them from rusting when they are are kept either indoors, or kept inside 2 layers of plastic boxing out of doors.... in a rather damp, but otherwise civilised valley in England.

Pete.28/10/2021 02:25:38
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I use Renaissance wax on my steel tools, I don't like fuids that are sticky, stick to your hands, and attract dirt, Renaissance wax avoids all that and protects.

Russell Eberhardt28/10/2021 09:40:41
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2720 forum posts
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When I was doing metalwork at school we were taught to put two drops of machine oil on our hands and rub it in as soon as we entered the workshop. I still do that and never put any oil to protect the metal except on moving parts. Never have any rust problem.

Russell

Grindstone Cowboy28/10/2021 10:29:22
758 forum posts
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+1 on Renaissance wax

Rob

Howard Lewis28/10/2021 11:37:14
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FWIW, my bandsaw lives outside, under a cover made from curtainsider material.

I just spray the machined surfaces with oil , and rust is not a problem.

For rusting to take place moisture and oxygen have to be present. Whatever keeps them away from the stell mor iron will prevent rusting.

Howard

John Smith 4728/10/2021 13:14:19
271 forum posts
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Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 28/10/2021 09:40:41:

When I was doing metalwork at school we were taught to put two drops of machine oil on our hands and rub it in as soon as we entered the workshop. I still do that and never put any oil to protect the metal except on moving parts. Never have any rust problem.

Russell

Machine oil on hands
I'm sure that would work, however I have to ask - how is your health?

The reason I ask is that it is thought that in general at least 60% (maybe 64%) of everything you put onto your skin is absorbed into your blood stream. This is a monumental and seldom talked about problem. e.g. Facecreams & hand creams that seem to get absorbed... where else do you think they go? For example it turns out that the mild from (human) mother's is often heaving with what is effectively suntan lotion, that has been stored in the mother's fat cells.

I don't know about machine oil in particular, but I would strongly caution against putting anything that is not broadly edible onto your skin.

Renaissance Wax
This sounds interesting. Why did you start using Renaissance Wax in particular? It sounds like museums use it... Is this a known thing that lots of people in workshops do or did you come up with the idea for yourself?
The was has quite a high melting point 75 to 80C, but maybe there is just enough creep to seal any molecular-sized cracks that might from in the wax to keep H2O and O2 at bay. Once it gets very old does it start to harden/flake off at all?

Also what form do you apply Renaissance Wax in - Can you obtain it in a light easy to apply spray form?
e.g. "Renaissance Metal Decorroder" or just plain "Renaissance Wax" that you buy in a tin and apply with a cloth?

Once the volatiles have "dried off" is the final surface slightly slippy (like that of say a candle)?


Have any of you tried both Boeshield T-9 and Renaissance Wax? How do they compare in practice?

SillyOldDuffer28/10/2021 14:00:11
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Posted by Howard Lewis on 28/10/2021 11:37:14:

FWIW, my bandsaw lives outside, under a cover made from curtainsider material.

I just spray the machined surfaces with oil , and rust is not a problem.

For rusting to take place moisture and oxygen have to be present. Whatever keeps them away from the stell mor iron will prevent rusting.

Howard

Although oil is vital, it's not the only major item protecting the band-saw. It may seem counter-intuitive but putting machines outside is often helpful.

Apart from seawater, condensation is the worst cause of rust and it occurs whenever warm air meets cold metal.

Howard's outdoor band-saw tends to stay close to air temperature at all times, which reduces condensation. In contrast, indoor tools are likely to be heated and cooled in ways that encourage condensation. For example, the whole workshop cools down overnight until the warm operator arrives in the morning, turns on the lights, maybe a heater, and runs motors etc. These activities warm up the air faster than the metal objects in the workshop and the warm air condenses tiny droplets of oxygen rich water on any exposed metal the air can reach.

Thick insulation reduces temperature swings inside the workshop and reduces condensation. This is why indoor workshops do better than sheds. Not heating the workshop and lots of fresh air also help reduce condensation.

A complication is where the water is coming from. The air in a interior workshop will be much less humid than the air in a single skin garage with a leaky roof and no waterproof membrane under the floor. Step one is always to stop water getting in and to remove anything water producing - paraffin fires, big torches, wet washing, and tumble driers. People are pretty wet too.

In my particular workshop, which is a double-skinned garage inside the building, I do OK by putting up with the cold. I dress up warm rather than heating my workshop and tolerate a big draughty garage door! This tactic isn't practical for everyone: although my part of the world is mild I think an unheated shed in my garden would be too cold to work in during the winter. In which case, one cure is to prevent condensation by heating machines so they are always slightly warmer than the air (Black Heaters). Another is to remove water with a dehumidifier, but they have to be targetted. Just the ticket when the problem is domestic moist air, but they'll struggle in a cold wet outside garage.

Pays to look at one's circumstances and apply solutions to match. What works well for me in South West England could be wrong for a north facing shed in Thurso, and vice versa! And as for what's best in the tropics...

Dave

John Smith 4728/10/2021 14:30:05
271 forum posts
11 photos

Temperatures
Yes everything you say makes perfect sense. i.e. Simply put, temperature gradients are the enemy.

It has been a great surprise to me that my tools kept outside in all weathers and within 2 layers of plastic boxing ,that is deliberately NOT gas-tight, has NOT resulted in any significant rusting of my tools, irrespective of weather conditions throughout the year.

My one slight problem is that in winter if I bring very cold tool indoors, then condensation will immediately form... So once needs a nice warm workshop to warm them up quickly and once they are the temperature of the room, dry off at a reasonable speed.

I also have a fan heater which I sometimes apply to help bring the tools up to the room temperature quickly.

Sweat
Rust from sweat is an altogether different problem and can occur even when everything is at the same temperature and there is no water in sight. This is caused by the salt which is hydroscopic - i.e. it drags water out of the air. AFAIK the amount of salt in your sweat isn't really about age, it depends primarily on how much salt you eat in your diet. (think: bread, crisps, salted peanuts, breakfast cereals, soya sauce, marmite etc).

In my case both indoors and outdoors tools have suffered slightly from fingerprints. (Too many crisps!)



Neil Wyatt28/10/2021 19:43:41
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I've spoken to both my neighbours and they are happy for me to pain the sides of my new workshop accessible from their gardens.

I mentioned to one that the seepage through the wall was no-where near as bad on his side. Only after did I spot that that wall IS painted.

Clearly a good coat of primer and masonry paint should help a lot on the other side. I can't believe I am STILL kitting it out. At least I got down my first sections of false floor over the ramp at one end today.

The affordable solution for flooring will be a vapour membrane (OK a big polythene sheet), then 5mm foam underlay, then laminated flooring (by far the cheapest solution given B&Q has a 4 for 3 offer on. I'm sure it will get tatty quickly, but I can paint over it if required.

Still umming and ahing over the roof. I may use the reflective bubble wrap which gets a bad press as roof insulation but should be a good way to stop insulation and will be easy to apply direct to the underside of steel sheets. My worries are three-fold: condensation, baking heat in summer and temperature swings (see SOD's comment above).

I'm thinking I might as well get a 600W dehumidifier, just in case. I would want to run a frost heater anyway, so it would kill two birds with one stone.

Neil

Russell Eberhardt28/10/2021 20:25:24
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2720 forum posts
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Posted by John Smith 47 on 28/10/2021 13:14:19:

Machine oil on hands
I'm sure that would work, however I have to ask - how is your health?

The reason I ask is that it is thought that in general at least 60% (maybe 64%) of everything you put onto your skin is absorbed into your blood stream. This is a monumental and seldom talked about problem. e.g. Facecreams & hand creams that seem to get absorbed... where else do you think they go? For example it turns out that the mild from (human) mother's is often heaving with what is effectively suntan lotion, that has been stored in the mother's fat cells.

I don't know about machine oil in particular, but I would strongly caution against putting anything that is not broadly edible onto your skin.

Well school metalwork was in the early 1960s so I have been doing it for quite a while. What I don't do though is work full time in a workshop. I guess doing it full time may be more of a problem but I have never suffered from dermatitus other than having to do all the washing up when my wife was ill.

Russell

Bazyle28/10/2021 20:29:23
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You only need a regular small dehumidifier for a garage sized workshop. You don't want one with a built in heater as it is wasted energy in the summer when you do still want the moisture removal.

Howard Lewis29/10/2021 08:14:10
5528 forum posts
13 photos

Insulating the roof will prevent heat loss and keep moisture away from cold roof sheets, preventing condensation..

A well insulated shop will suffer less rapid temperature swings, reducing the risk of condensation.

In winter, it will warm up more quickly, or cool down more slowly.

In summer there will be less solar gain to the interior, so is less likely to give heat stroke!

My shop has 50 mm wooden frames with glass fibre between the 19 mm wooden outer cladding and the inner 12 mm ply on all four walls. The door end is 100 mm framed, to take the weight of the fire door.

(6 lever lock and hinge bolts for security )

The roof is rubber covered 12 mm ply on 50 mm frames with 12 mm ply ceiling, again glassfibre insulated..

High on the back wall is rainproof vent to a very rarely used 6" intake fan . Almost at floor level are two small fixed, permanently open vents.

The floor is 3/4 ply on 8 x 2 bearers, which have walls very close by on three sides, low at far end and front, 6' fence.against back wall. On top of the floor, on the areas on which I walk, there are hard plastic mats about 25 mm thick.so that I don't get cold feet .

Front wall is 8' high, rear wall 7'6". Outside dimensions are 10' 6" x 6' 9" with no windows.

My friend who built it said, "You'll spend most of your time with the door open" I do!

In winter, being small, a 2 Kw fan heater runs for about 10 - 15 minutes before the thermostat operates. The fan then runs for about 5 minutes every 30 minutes or so when the door is shut.

Location East Anglia, UK, so temperate. The ambient temperature range, in the course of a year is probably -5 to +30 at most.

At the risk of now being proved wrong, rust is almost unknown.

Howard

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