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Hi all, newbie with first lathe, rare one i think.

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wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 17:36:44
21 forum posts

Hi all

Wayne here Thanks for having me

I have been looking here for a time now on and off and now i think it time to join up. You folk now what your on about

I have been sort of sorting out the workshop and at last i am near the end. I plan for the future to start a build of a model steam engine and this is the first big step in the gear i need, well besides the new Axminster band saw and a few old pillar drills. .

I got this lathe recently only as it was great price, i think. I wasnt going to get one until later next year and was willing to pay well over a grand for one but i couldnt say no to this at the price it was, and as its a perfect fit in the workshop.

Its all there and have got a load of gear to go with it aswell which is a bonus.

I dont have a great deal of info on it but for that its a Union Werk AG and thats all but for it came off a German Naval WW2 war ship.

I have yet to make a better stand and base. Also i am thinking on getting a 3ph 1.5kw motor for it, this one is 1ph 55 kw.

Can anybody shed any more light on info on these lathes please

.

Wayne

Thor 🇳🇴17/10/2021 18:41:44
avatar
1473 forum posts
41 photos

Hi Wayne,

I assume you have already checked lathes.co?

Thor

Brian Wood17/10/2021 18:42:39
2497 forum posts
39 photos

Hello Wayne,

This particular lathe is the very one pictured in Tony Griffiths excellent archive website www.lathes.co.uk. Other than confirming it came off a WW2 German warship and having a spindle height of about 7 inches from the bed, he has rather uncharacteristically little do add, except to say the factory produced quality work.

There are no technical details that you can refer to. The view inside the headstock is of a clean machine in good shape.

Enjoy your purchase, it should serve you well

Brian

wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 18:56:31
21 forum posts
Posted by Thor 🇳🇴 on 17/10/2021 18:41:44:

Hi Wayne,

I assume you have already checked lathes.co?

Thor

Hi there, yes thats the one i have.

old mart17/10/2021 18:58:33
3487 forum posts
213 photos

Welcome to the forum, Wayne, it certainly is an interesting machine. I would personally choose a 1 hp motor, 0.75Kw and a VFD since its quite old and needs a gentle touch. And keep the maximum rpm below 1400.

wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 18:59:36
21 forum posts
Posted by Brian Wood on 17/10/2021 18:42:39:

Hello Wayne,

This particular lathe is the very one pictured in Tony Griffiths excellent archive website www.lathes.co.uk. Other than confirming it came off a WW2 German warship and having a spindle height of about 7 inches from the bed, he has rather uncharacteristically little do add, except to say the factory produced quality work.

There are no technical details that you can refer to. The view inside the headstock is of a clean machine in good shape.

Enjoy your purchase, it should serve you well

Brian

oh its clean, in all very good condition really but for a bit of damage on the cross slide.

I am trying to find out the oil to use to add to the head stock and oil ways, i want to give a service if needed or not as dont know when it was last done.

wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 19:02:52
21 forum posts
Posted by old mart on 17/10/2021 18:58:33:

Welcome to the forum, Wayne, it certainly is an interesting machine. I would personally choose a 1 hp motor, 0.75Kw and a VFD since its quite old and needs a gentle touch. And keep the maximum rpm below 1400.

I have been wondering why it has a three belt pulley also. any ideas why that is. it looks original

Oh and yes i dont want to blow it up even though its built well i want to be carefull with it.

.

Dave S17/10/2021 19:15:21
300 forum posts
61 photos

My CVA has 3 v belts from motor gearbox output to the headstock. I guess it’s for torque transmission.

Dave

Dave Halford17/10/2021 19:22:46
1879 forum posts
22 photos

If it was born with a 3 pulley drive it probably needed it.

You may find the gearbox very lossy and it's got a heck of a bed for a bench top lathe. With a 14" swing it's more like 3hp territory.

Nigel McBurney 117/10/2021 19:35:47
avatar
961 forum posts
3 photos

I would be looking at a minimum of a two HP motor to drive your lathe ,thats a big headstock to drive,plus cut metal,the multiple drive pulley indicates that it originally had a good size motor.I would not try to get a high spindle speed,if it is ww2 ,a spindle speed would not been much over 750 rpm. In the 1950s a 8inch Wilson lathe i worked on had a top speed of 440 rpm and a 41/2 Boxford was only 1450 rpm.

wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 19:47:06
21 forum posts

This is why i am trying to find the origin al specs on this lathe. Its amine field for me all this as in what size motor as folk have said all between 1hp and 3hp and speeds from 500rpm to 1750rpm.

I plan on a 3ph with a VFR, now with a VFR can i make the VFR max out at say 1400rpm ?

all new to me this also, just learned the other day what a VFR does.

wayne ollerenshaw17/10/2021 19:55:56
21 forum posts

I am bidding on a 3ph 1.5kw/2hp 1450rpm motor on ebay. should i leave it and see. dont want to buy the wrong size now.

Its always the way with me, i buy things that need so much research ha ha

 

Edited By wayne ollerenshaw on 17/10/2021 19:56:25

old mart17/10/2021 21:22:59
3487 forum posts
213 photos

If the motor looks good, go for it, you don't have to run it at its limits. A decent modern oil of practically any type will be superior to the stuff they had 80 years ago, I would use synthetic motor oil myself.

not done it yet17/10/2021 21:52:54
6504 forum posts
20 photos

Hi W.olly, welcome over here.🙂

Get the 2HP motor. Have you checked the threads on any of the bolts and measured the lead screw pitch (travel per rev) yet?

You won’t break it if you are careful. It is built like the proverbial brick bog.

Ipswich is a bit far for me, but I expect there are some nearer, who could give you some practical on-site advice- sort out your accessories and get that indexer working.

The better VFDs can be programmed for all manner of things.

Edited to add: Check the type of bearing on the headstock.  If it is a plain bearing stick to the 1000rpm  limit - well not much more.  If a taper roller bearing, the main spindle could go much faster but the gearbox may not like it.  It would be a shame to push it too hard.  

Edited By not done it yet on 17/10/2021 22:04:10

peak417/10/2021 23:44:49
avatar
1587 forum posts
167 photos

There's a little info Here; I've linked to the German English translation via Google
https://forum-zerspanungsbude-net.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?t=21272&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

See Also
https://forum-zerspanungsbude-net.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?t=47614&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

And Here
https://www-deutsche--digitale--bibliothek-de.translate.goog/item/ODY3L5WC3U7GK7KBLNO7CHE3XMONJ5ZG?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

There may be some archive material available Here
https://www-archiv-sachsen-de.translate.goog/archiv/bestand.jsp?oid=09.08.04&bestandid=31029&syg_id=113361&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui%2Csc

Good Luck with that lot.

Bill

old mart18/10/2021 12:53:28
3487 forum posts
213 photos

We all look forward to regular updates on progress with your lathe. Have you measured the spindle threads and fitting? You will probably have to make custom backplates from blanks or solid cast iron for any additional chucks needed.

peak418/10/2021 13:22:23
avatar
1587 forum posts
167 photos
Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 17/10/2021 19:35:47:

I would be looking at a minimum of a two HP motor to drive your lathe ,thats a big headstock to drive,plus cut metal,the multiple drive pulley indicates that it originally had a good size motor.I would not try to get a high spindle speed,if it is ww2 ,a spindle speed would not been much over 750 rpm. In the 1950s a 8inch Wilson lathe i worked on had a top speed of 440 rpm and a 41/2 Boxford was only 1450 rpm.

If you have a look at the second link in my previous post, there is a photo of the brass plate showing spindle speeds.
If I read it correctly selectable up to 1000 max, but 1200 is also mentioned at the bottom of the plate, perhaps for a higher frequency supply.
Note also the photo of the lathe fitted with two different motors at the same time.

Bill

Brian Wood18/10/2021 16:35:10
2497 forum posts
39 photos

Google has some information from Suffolk Steam on this particular lathe, It is demonstrated in a video

The nose thread is 60 mm O/D, pitch 5.5 mm with a through bore of 40 mm and 5 MT nose taper. From the size of the bearing housing I would guess at a taper roller bearing support at the chuck end and probably a plain roller bearing at the far end of the spindle

Old Mart recommends a decent quality oil in the headstock. I agree with him and used a semi-synthetic 10W-50 oil made by Morris Lubricants in a recent restoration of a Churchill Cub lathe of 1947 vintage. It seems to like it and runs very well at all speeds.

Brian

wayne ollerenshaw18/10/2021 17:52:44
21 forum posts
Posted by not done it yet on 17/10/2021 21:52:54:

Hi W.olly, welcome over here.🙂

Get the 2HP motor. Have you checked the threads on any of the bolts and measured the lead screw pitch (travel per rev) yet?

You won’t break it if you are careful. It is built like the proverbial brick bog.

Ipswich is a bit far for me, but I expect there are some nearer, who could give you some practical on-site advice- sort out your accessories and get that indexer working.

The better VFDs can be programmed for all manner of things.

Edited to add: Check the type of bearing on the headstock. If it is a plain bearing stick to the 1000rpm limit - well not much more. If a taper roller bearing, the main spindle could go much faster but the gearbox may not like it. It would be a shame to push it too hard.

Edited By not done it yet on 17/10/2021 22:04:10

Well ow do there kida

I won that motor

Think you mistaken though as i am in Manchester and got he lathe from Ipswich, but i do confuse folk much like i confuse myself ll.

I havnt yet counted the leadscrew. ill pop out in a bit and do so though.

wayne ollerenshaw18/10/2021 17:54:28
21 forum posts
Posted by peak4 on 17/10/2021 23:44:49:

There's a little info Here; I've linked to the German English translation via Google
https://forum-zerspanungsbude-net.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?t=21272&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

See Also
https://forum-zerspanungsbude-net.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?t=47614&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

And Here
https://www-deutsche--digitale--bibliothek-de.translate.goog/item/ODY3L5WC3U7GK7KBLNO7CHE3XMONJ5ZG?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

There may be some archive material available Here
https://www-archiv-sachsen-de.translate.goog/archiv/bestand.jsp?oid=09.08.04&bestandid=31029&syg_id=113361&_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui%2Csc

Good Luck with that lot.

Bill

I found a couple of them the other night and started to go through them, that lathe though is different from mine. well a little. head stock look similar.

All i can say is thank god for translate

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