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Not enoughh CO2 ?

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Steviegtr21/09/2021 23:16:57
2242 forum posts
311 photos

Well over here in the Canary Islands it is a issue. The volcano in Las Palmas is spuing huge amounts out at the moment. Not good I guess. Not to mention that the earth is getting hollowed by the day.Steve.

Circlip22/09/2021 08:46:51
1353 forum posts
Posted by not done it yet on 21/09/2021 09:31:29:
Posted by Circlip on 21/09/2021 09:17:55:

CO2, no problem. Use extracted atmosphere from houses of parliament. One weeks storage should last months.

Regards Ian.

A bit political, that. But from there it is only hot air? The living-dead don’t need to actually breathe?

No politics involved at all, it's a big room with all involved and strangely enough, I was led to believe we exhale CO2? One worrying aspect is that the largest producer in this country is American owned together with many more and prospective purchases "over here"

Regards Ian.

Michael Gilligan22/09/2021 09:35:42
18925 forum posts
942 photos

Talking of ‘politics’ … This, from today’s News, reads awfully like successful blackmail:

The deal will mean that the government will pay tens of millions of pounds to a US fertiliser firm to reverse its decision to shut two plants which the company said had become uneconomic because of rising gas prices.


Ady122/09/2021 09:59:19
4728 forum posts
714 photos

Amusing to watch one little company holding an entire country to ransom

and with the approval of the leaders of that country too

Pay up on the ransom and even make up some excuses for your corporate buddies lol

Presumably the ransom will be paid in Bitcoin

Interesting times

Edited By Ady1 on 22/09/2021 10:17:05

J Hancock22/09/2021 10:17:32
724 forum posts

And not a single mention on any media that it is a vital component for our nuclear stations.

Only for food and killing animals.

pgk pgk22/09/2021 10:27:58
2317 forum posts
293 photos
Posted by J Hancock on 22/09/2021 10:17:32:

And not a single mention on any media that it is a vital component for our nuclear stations.

Only for food and killing animals.

Mentioned on the BBC website.

I see non-one condemns the CO2 produced in brewing alcohol..
As for fertilizer production also a Beeb article abut one chap who is onto composting and rightly suggest we should compost dead bodies -a suggestion I made years ago in a letter to the DT editor 'mince up your granny and spray her on the meadow' - which surprisingly was never published..

John Haine22/09/2021 10:30:30
4170 forum posts
242 photos

I sincerely hope that the CO2 used to cool AGRs is recycled rather than spewing C14 into the atmosphere!

J Hancock22/09/2021 10:47:14
724 forum posts

Yes, the particulates are filtered out ,not sure if the CO2 is 'recycled' these days.

Certainly 'losses' are made up by 'new' CO2.

mgnbuk22/09/2021 11:38:35
1032 forum posts
69 photos

I see non-one condemns the CO2 produced in brewing alcohol.

I don't know if it is a general practice in the brewing sector, but on an episode of the "Inside the factory" TV program than covered production of cider that company recovered the CO2 released during fermentation & used it to carbonate the finished product when it was canned.

Nigel B.

Anthony Knights22/09/2021 11:50:51
562 forum posts
234 photos

I can remember many years ago, visiting the then ICI site on Teeside and noticing that in the area surrounding the fertiliser plant, not even grass or weeds would grow.

Nicholas Wheeler 122/09/2021 12:10:33
739 forum posts
51 photos
Posted by mgnbuk on 22/09/2021 11:38:35:

I see non-one condemns the CO2 produced in brewing alcohol.

I don't know if it is a general practice in the brewing sector, but on an episode of the "Inside the factory" TV program than covered production of cider that company recovered the CO2 released during fermentation & used it to carbonate the finished product when it was canned.

When I dealt with Whitbread thirty years ago, the suggestion was that brewers have more CO2 than they know what to do with. We certainly got our cylinders for the dispensers for nothing.

Bazyle22/09/2021 13:06:34
6038 forum posts
220 photos

I think it has been said on here before that welding CO2 came from brewing. Probably things have changed a lot over the last 30 years and new uses for it found because it was cheap have upped the demand.

not done it yet22/09/2021 13:29:18
6322 forum posts
20 photos
Posted by John Haine on 22/09/2021 10:30:30:

I sincerely hope that the CO2 used to cool AGRs is recycled rather than spewing C14 into the atmosphere!

Carbon dioxide has no bearing on radio isotope C-14. Carbon 14 is actually produced from nitrogen-14, not carbon 12.

It is produced, naturally, at the outermost layers of the atmosphere by cosmic radiation interaction with nitrogen, so presumably it is produced ‘industrially’ by irradiating metal nitrides in an atomic pile.

I expect radio-carbon dating will, if still in use long into the future (there are other methods available these days), need to be modified to take into account the man-made fraction produced over the last few decades.

Dunno how it arrived at The Radiochemical Centre at Amersham (now Amersham International), but very high specific activity Barium Carbonate was the source of carbon-14 dioxide in the organic synthesis process for so many compounds. I analysed the Barium Carbonate (and lots of other radio-isotope compounds), back in the 1960s.

Edited By not done it yet on 22/09/2021 13:33:09

J Hancock22/09/2021 14:45:17
724 forum posts

I have just opened my British Gas Evolve website, the account has been set to zero , there are now a huge number of ' new tariffs ' to choose from. All to suit the 'new' prices.

noel shelley22/09/2021 15:25:00
758 forum posts
19 photos

In the context of industrial gasses British Oxygen Company hasn't been British for a while, Air Products has been Air Liquide and I have a feeling that both are now Linde ? Do WE make anything now ?

Linde in the late 1800s were big in refrigeration, Rodolf Diesel worked for them and his understanding of thermo dynamics led to him wanting to improve the thermal efficiency of the gas engine. The fact that the fuel ignited due to the heat of compression was just a benefit, he had not setout to make the sparking plug redundant, or avoid all the problems inherent in early spark ignition systems. Noel.

Samsaranda22/09/2021 16:59:54
1207 forum posts
5 photos

Nigel B

Went on an organised visit to a local Sussex Brewery a few years ago, it has been on the same site since the late 1700’s, in the brewing room were rows of tanks bubbling away fermenting, there was no way in which the CO2 produced could be collected as the tanks were all open at the top, beautiful aroma in there. I presume some brewery’s do collect the CO2 produced but by no means all do, so it seems we are at the mercy of the industrial giants that can blackmail the government. Dave W

Graham Meek22/09/2021 18:29:23
398 forum posts
259 photos

By what I was told today, petrol is also in short supply in certain parts of the country.



Paul Kemp22/09/2021 18:36:26
689 forum posts
18 photos

As ever there seems more behind this story than meets the eye at first glance. Most news articles are blaming this on record high gas prices with little explanation of the reasons for the high prices beyond increased demand due to emerging from the pandemic. However if you dig deeper there is a lot more to it. Gas reserves (gas in storage waiting to be used) are at a low, below 2018 levels, the figures don't show a drastic drop since restrictions have released / enconomy has recovered. But neither do they show a significant increase during the peak pandemic period which suggests there was little down turn in demand either. The lack of decreasing demand may be linked to lower than normal wind speeds across Europe leading to greater use of gas in electricity generation. Apparently reserves are low due to reduced export of gas from Norway and Russia (plus some allegations Russia is holding back supplies!). Norway and Russia combined, supply around 40% of European gas consumed. Previously in the UK and Europe when gas prices were high electricity was generated by coal powered stations - we all know where that has gone - few resources left and reliant now on imported fuel.

This article is the latest (August 21) I found with future predictions tells an interesting story.

For those unwilling or unable to follow the link a very broad executive summary is that gas has been seen as a transition fuel to zero emissions as dirtier fuels are being phased out however not being exactly clean itself there has been unwillingness globally to invest in new projects to increase the supply to meet the demand.

There is some irony here that the drive to green has produced a bonanza for the gas market with other technology lagging in implementation and capacity. The demand for gas is set to continue increasing and in Asia demand due to outstrip supply so the price issue isn't going to change any time soon! With increasing drive to electricity but without an exponential expansion in renewables to support, electricity prices are set to follow the current trend especially considering the steady increase in demand for electricity from ev's and similar initiatives (no gas boilers in new houses). Green hydrogen is no silver bullet either because a 20MW electrolysed only produces 3000t a year and there are not many of those plugged in right now.

Dont expect your bills to drop any time soon! The really odd thing in all this is CO2 is one of the pollutants we are striving to eliminate but is so widely used in the supply chain it is set to become more expensive - unintended consequences?


J Hancock22/09/2021 18:57:24
724 forum posts

Don't forget, we lost 1GW with Dungeness, then 1GW with the French link, then 4GW no wind.

All made up by gas, to make electricity.

John Reese27/09/2021 00:11:05
986 forum posts
Posted by KWIL on 21/09/2021 10:30:01:

The bottomless pit of subsidies to state owned assets? No not again.

All we need now is for Mr P to stop gas supplies.

Here in Illinois the state subsidizes wind and solar power. The state also subsidizes nuclear power so they can be cost competitive with wind and solar. Madness.

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