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Is It A Fake

Opinion in article in ME 4665

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Nicholas Farr03/08/2021 08:52:25
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Hi I've just been reading Postbag in M 4670, John Bauer's opinion of Noel Shelley's question in his article in ME 4665 as to whether his casting of of a plate is fake or not. In my opinion, and this is no disrespect to Noel Shelley or anyone else's opinions, that the answer to Noel's question is; yes it is a fake. The reason being that although the casting was made from the original makers pattern, a plate with the number 7868 made from this pattern was never attached to a production locomotive. Had Noel cast a plate with a number that was used on a production locomotive, then that plate could be classed as a replica. Any plate cast from the pattern by any authority owned or authorised by any company that may own the original company or its rights, with an original production number, could be classed as a genuine replacement part. This is my opinion, but of course I could be wrong.

The photo of Noels cast plate in ME 4665 looks good though.

Regards Nick.

Nick Clarke 303/08/2021 09:11:41
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Posted by Nicholas Farr on 03/08/2021 08:52:25:

the answer to Noel's question is; yes it is a fake. The reason being that although the casting was made from the original makers pattern, a plate with the number 7868 made from this pattern was never attached to a production locomotive.

While personally not being majorly concerned with the differences between representations, models and fakes - in the above scenario, if the exact original never existed, then the new plate is a fake of what?

Martin Kyte03/08/2021 09:43:09
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So then if a plate was recast from the scraps of a broken original using the manufacturers pattern what would that be. Maybe a repaired original. OK so it's cleaving the keratin but passes the time.

regards Martin

Michael Gilligan03/08/2021 09:57:48
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Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 03/08/2021 09:11:41:
[…]

in the above scenario, if the exact original never existed, then the new plate is a fake of what?

.

I think you have come fairly close to the definition of a fake, there ^^^

MichaelG.

.

Try this: https://www.gbgplc.com/en/blog/forgeries-fakes-and-counterfeits-arent-the-same-thing/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/08/2021 10:01:00

Nicholas Farr03/08/2021 09:59:40
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Hi Nick Clarke 3, I would say fake representation, because that number only existed on a simpler pattern.

Regards Nick.

Dave Halford03/08/2021 10:00:15
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This sounds familiar, wasn't there a thread on hear some time ago?

SillyOldDuffer03/08/2021 10:13:39
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John Bauer's letter covers the point for me when he says 'I would be of the opinion that something cannot be fake unless it is presented as something as it is not.'

I suggest items only become fake when used to deceive. For example, an replica engine plate, bought knowing it's a replica, isn't a fake. However, if the same plate is sold on later as an original, then the deception makes it a wrong 'un. The deceit is in the transaction rather than the replica, unless the replica was specifically made to deceive.

Although a model locomotive could be said to be a fake, it's small size makes it unlikely anyone would believe they were buying a full-size engine. Engine plates are in the middle; sold as a replica, no problem; sold as an original, they're crook. Reproducing current bank notes and coins is downright illegal, it always being assumed by the law that the purpose is fraud.

Blurred territory though: people have bought dolls-house furniture from internet auctions under the impression it was full-size. Where they deceived if the true dimensions were in the small print?

Lots of fakery about. Married men know the awful truth about wives. High-heels, corsets, support garments, depilatories, brassieres, lipstick, foundation, perfume, false eyelashes, hair dye, and lipstick.

Though honest, I'm as attractive as Albert Steptoe. You choose!

Dave

Dave Halford03/08/2021 14:23:41
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Posted by Dave Halford on 03/08/2021 10:00:15:

This sounds familiar, wasn't there a thread on hear some time ago?

Found it - wrong website it's on Traction Talk

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