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Aluminium

What type

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kevin large18/07/2021 19:05:13
143 forum posts
3 photos

Hi all I would like to attempt to make a seat base for my triton I would like to use aluminium but what grade would be best for forming the seat I would want to bend and weld the pieces together any help appreciated

ChrisB19/07/2021 06:21:45
645 forum posts
207 photos

If no strength is required, probably the best aluminium to form and weld would be the 1050 series.

Dave Smith 1419/07/2021 08:53:49
187 forum posts
28 photos

1050 is no use for anything except foil and labels being pure Aluminium. 3103-H4 or similar is a better bet as it is weldable relatively easy to form and has a higher strength. 6082 can be used but you will need it in the fully soft T0 condition.

ChrisB19/07/2021 11:36:54
645 forum posts
207 photos
Posted by Dave Smith 14 on 19/07/2021 08:53:49:

1050 is no use for anything except foil and labels being pure Aluminium.

Where did you get that from?!

Jeff Dayman19/07/2021 12:29:15
2166 forum posts
45 photos

I find 5052 or 5053 is great for pan type parts. Similar properties to 60xx series but more easily formed and welded. Usually cheaper than 60xx also, local to me.

Tony Pratt 119/07/2021 12:34:15
1648 forum posts
8 photos
Posted by ChrisB on 19/07/2021 11:36:54:
Posted by Dave Smith 14 on 19/07/2021 08:53:49:

1050 is no use for anything except foil and labels being pure Aluminium.

Where did you get that from?!

Chris B, I also would like to see the data.

Tony

SillyOldDuffer19/07/2021 12:49:09
Moderator
7482 forum posts
1657 photos
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 19/07/2021 12:34:15:
Posted by ChrisB on 19/07/2021 11:36:54:
Posted by Dave Smith 14 on 19/07/2021 08:53:49:

1050 is no use for anything except foil and labels being pure Aluminium.

Where did you get that from?!

Chris B, I also would like to see the data.

Tony

It's more or less what these guys say. At least 99% Aluminium

  • Solderability: Excellent

  • Weldability - Gas: Excellent

  • Weldability - Arc: Excellent

  • Weldability - Resistance: Excellent

  • Brazability: Excellent

  • Workability - Cold: Excellent

  • Machinability: Poor

Classic sheet metal.

Dave

Tony Pratt 119/07/2021 13:35:59
1648 forum posts
8 photos

Looks good for a motorbike seat.

Tony

Andrew Johnston19/07/2021 13:59:53
avatar
6235 forum posts
676 photos

The link from SoD doesn't work. Cutting and pasting leads to links for controlling 12V DC motors; which I suspect is a different thread.

Agreed that 1050A is almost pure aluminium. But I'd disagree with it only being useful for foil and labels. I've used it for other applicationsw, such as c ustom dashboards for modified hybrid cars when testing new batteries.

The professionals seem to think it has other uses:

1050A Overview

Andrew

ChrisB19/07/2021 14:13:01
645 forum posts
207 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 19/07/2021 13:59:53:

The link from SoD doesn't work. Cutting and pasting leads to links for controlling 12V DC motors; which I suspect is a different thread.

Agreed that 1050A is almost pure aluminium. But I'd disagree with it only being useful for foil and labels. I've used it for other applicationsw, such as c ustom dashboards for modified hybrid cars when testing new batteries.

The professionals seem to think it has other uses:

1050A Overview

Andrew

Exactly my thoughts Andrew, not saying 1050 is the only material to choose, the ones mentioned by Dave might also be good. I tend to prefer 1050 because I know it's easy to work with especially for forming, given it's a seat pan I don't see any requirement for high strength, so forming and welding would take priority...imho

Bill Pudney19/07/2021 23:12:32
559 forum posts
24 photos

My preference would be for fibreglass, but I appreciate that not everyone would agree. If it was mandated that al alloy must be used, my choice would be 5251. Motorcycle seats need to be able to resist bending and twisting as their fixing arrangements are seldom ideal. In addition they must resist corrosion. As the national debt is unlikely to run to anodising the completed seat pan, I would suggest investing in a good marine paint scheme prior to upholstering. By all means use 1050 if the motorcycle is unlikely to be ridden, but I can't imagine a Triton locked up in a shed!!

cheers

Bill

Lee Rogers20/07/2021 08:32:07
avatar
137 forum posts

You may find that as with all things the spec will be a compromise of what you want and what you can get .

First , if anyone says ''aircraft grade'' move on. A generally spurious term meaning very little of importance.

6082T6 is a good compromise of all the qualities you require . It will anneal and work harden back to a decent strength but design should negate the needwhere you can, it's available in thin gague (get the thinnest that you can) and it's cheap as chips compared to some other options .

You will need to design the stiffness of the part into it with flutes, folds and ribs , if you use sheet that's thick enough to do without you will never bend it succesfully without an industrial press. Light aircraft use 6061T6 because it's available down to 35 thou thickness , has reasonable workability and reasonable corrosion resistance ,is fairly strong , but not the best in any of those qualities.

Auminium warehouse at Wellham Green Hatfield do a cut to size service and are good to deal with , no connection just a happy repeat customer.

Dave Smith 1420/07/2021 14:31:08
187 forum posts
28 photos

As a professional user of Aluminium (40 years of aircraft structures) I stand by my opinion. The OP wants to make a seat base. It will be subject to loads from the occupant. Strength may not be issue, but is very low at 100 - 135 MPa (mild steel is around 240 MPa) but stiffness is going to be important and we talking about structure that needs to be SAFE. 1050 is extremely soft so yes suitable for things like foil, lables and custom dashboards but not where its operating environment will subject to any significant loads, which a person sitting on a bike can easily apply.

Bill I agree 5251 would also be a good candidate.

Also remember that with all Aluminium welding the HAZ at the joint unless heat treated will be in 'O' condition. So with say 6082-T6 with a tensile strength of around 295 MPa the strength at the joint will be in the order of 65 MPa and very soft, so stiffness can remain an issue.

Dave

Oily Rag20/07/2021 14:52:31
avatar
460 forum posts
147 photos

The elephant in the room is vibration! Talk of strength and ductility is all well and good, but the seat base is more liable to fail at a frame fixing point through vibration fatigue.

In the past I have used NS3 or NS4 sheet (an old aircraft duralumin specification) for similar jobs but I am not sure what it translates to in modern parlance. Having said all this the seat base is liable to be directly supported for its length by the frame rails for the rear sub frame (from memories of the Norton Featherbed design).

Keep us informed Kevin of how you get on and let's have some pictures please.

Martin

kevin large20/07/2021 15:28:00
143 forum posts
3 photos

Thank you all now just need to order the aluminium and make patterns

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