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Carbide inserts confusion

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Robert Bowen-Cattry21/06/2021 09:45:21
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Good morning gents.

When I purchased my lathe from Warco I also picked up a set of their 10mm indexable lathe tools. **LINK**.

I am now looking to get some spare inserts for these as I have already worn a couple of them, however I'm struggling with the correct designation as this doesn't appear on the Warco site (you can buy spare tips from them but they are out of stock).

I have measured the inserts, they are10.5mm long at the cutting edge and 10mm long at the bottom of the relief angle. They are 2.5mm thick.

Without wanting to get into the letter codes, can anyone give me an idea on the number designation that seems to refer to size? I see online tips that are 09020* (I understand the * refer to nose radius) and 11030*, but these seem to span the actual size of my tips, hence my confusion.

As an alternative would I be better of forgetting about these lathe tools and getting something in the 12mm shank range with diamond shape tips, as these seem to be more numerous?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bob

Emgee21/06/2021 09:57:33
2409 forum posts
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Bob

Check these out, there's plenty of choice of grades depending on what material you are cutting.

Emgee

**LINK**

Robert Bowen-Cattry21/06/2021 10:09:13
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Thanks Emgee.

So I should be looking for the 11020* size/designation?

Bob

JasonB21/06/2021 10:14:23
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edge length is point to point of a triangle so any radius on the corners will give a smaller actual measurement so that is why your 1102** inserts come up a bit smaller

Andrew Johnston21/06/2021 10:15:36
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I don't know about the Warco set but be aware that some suppliers use non-standard, or uncommon, insert sizes so you can't buy elsewhere.

Andrew

not done it yet21/06/2021 10:22:17
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The tips required for each set is listed on their website but I expect they are available elsewhere. I suggest you order some for when they are available or ask Warco for an alternative. In the meantime you had 15 tips and have worn 6 of them, already? Still 9 to go🙂 .

You are likely to wear them less as your experience increases. One important factor is depth of cut. Too little depth and the cutter may well rub instead of cutting, which will cause rapid wear of the cutting edge.

JB Cutting Tools are a well recommended supplier and are helpful in most cases, so definitely worth a call as they may be able to offer an alternative at a realistic price.

Perhaps time to consider high speed steel? More easily sharpened than carbide (but even carbide inserts can sometimes be ‘tickled up&rsquo . HSS is often far better for light cuts than carbide and can be sharpened multiple times.

Polished carbide insert may be the choice, if available, for finishing cuts.

Robert Bowen-Cattry21/06/2021 10:46:57
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Thanks guys.

I will order a couple of the 110202 inserts and see if they fit, it's only around a fiver so not too much lost if they don't.

To be fair, I'm not completely sure if the tips are fully worn, being a newbie it's hard to tell. I noticed I was getting poor surface finish (well, worse than I was getting with a fresh tip) so switched them round. As said, no doubt as I get more experience I will damage them less. Generally I have been taking .25mm cuts, other than finishing passes of .5 or .10mm.

I did also pick up some HSS cutters from Warco but haven't really dabbled with then yet, might well be time to do so. I kinda like the idea of insert cutters though, seems easier to change a tip rather than sharpen HSS.

JasonB21/06/2021 10:52:38
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For light cuts like that if you want to stay with inserts then the TCGT polished ones would be better as they will take a shallower cut than TCMT.

John P21/06/2021 10:52:41
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I seem to have posted a link to some cutters that may have been of some use to you,

the posting seems to have vanished ? ,if you are interested in these send a PM and i will

PM the link back to you.

John

Edited By John Pace on 21/06/2021 10:53:08

Robert Bowen-Cattry21/06/2021 11:07:33
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Jason, thanks for that, it was actually the TCGT inserts I was looking at. Out of interest, what sort of depth of cut are the TCMT designed for?

John, PM sent.

Andrew Johnston21/06/2021 11:21:46
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Posted by Robert Bowen-Cattry on 21/06/2021 11:07:33:

................Out of interest, what sort of depth of cut are the TCMT designed for?

With CCMT inserts I use up to 5mm DOC for roughing and anything up to 1mm for finishing. There are three parameters that can be varied, depth of cut, feed per rev and surface speed. Depth of cut has the least influence on tool life. Doubling the DOC simply uses more of the edge, it doesn't increase the wear per unit length.

Andrew

JasonB21/06/2021 12:11:05
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As Andrew says they can take off quite a cut BUT on your 180 lathe I would say something in the region of 2mm DOC would be comfortable and not strain the machine when combined with a modest feed rate for roughing. Though if the machine is sounding happy a faster feed can often improve the finish. Work diameter will also play a part as you will likely find that the machine will happily take a 3mm cut of a 10mm dia rod it won't be happy taking the same off a 100mm disc.

As for tip radius I would say 0.4 on the TCMT and 0.2 on the TCGT would be a suitable general use radius

Robert Bowen-Cattry21/06/2021 12:32:01
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Thanks guys.

I was thinking that a 5mm cut sounded ambitious on my little machine, but i will try a 2mm cut when the tips arrive and see how it gets on.

mechman4821/06/2021 14:32:03
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Not detracting from or disparaging Warco's or other uk sellers have a look on Ali express or Bangood web sites where you can find various sizes to suit your lathe, & can usually be sold with a box of ten inserts for a very economical price. Usual disclaimer applies.

George.

Howard Lewis21/06/2021 16:46:34
6040 forum posts
14 photos

J B Cutting Tools will be a good source for tips, and cutting tools.

Jenny is always helpful.

Howard

larry phelan 123/06/2021 10:35:36
1172 forum posts
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HSS is by no means difficult to grind an is a lot cheaper than any tips, and can take off a whisker.

Have been using it for the last 20 years, no problem.

Give it a try, you might be surprised !

Emgee23/06/2021 10:54:14
2409 forum posts
287 photos

Robert

These are for non ferrous and plastics but also work well on steel but life of insert is reduced.

**LINK**

I agree with Larry that HSS can take off a whisker, if ground to the correct angles is excellent on non ferrous materials. The reason I prefer inserts is you can replace an insert and retain the same tool offsets, removing a HSS tool to grind requires offsets are determined after refitting the tool before continuing job.

Emgee

not done it yet23/06/2021 11:48:26
6749 forum posts
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Beware of diameter constraints. Larger diameter workpieces obviously require reduced rotational speed for a given surface cutting speed. This OK if the motor is running at full speed but if you have a lathe with a variable speed motor do remember that power can be reduced at low speed, current may be increased and motor cooling air flow from the axial motor fan is definitely reduced. Over-heating can be a problem.

This can become an expensive pastime with some machines - often both the motor and/or controller can go west.

Most of these modern hobby machines are not built for heavy, continuous work. There are lots of threads on this forum (and elsewhere) where people have found that although their machine may cope with a heavy load at slow speed - but only for a short time!

Robert Bowen-Cattry23/06/2021 12:27:42
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Many thanks for all the advice gents.

I received the 110202 inserts and can confirm they fit so that solves that mystery. Warco came back to me but could not advise themselves what inserts would fit!

I have also ordered some HSS square bar and a white oxide wheel so that I can practice grinding HSS tools.

Cheers

B

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