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My Starrett clamp can cause cancer....

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Rik Shaw10/06/2021 17:11:05
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1425 forum posts
390 photos

“By typing this, I risk R S I. Who do I sue?

Your keyboard manufacturer of course for not warning you that excessively fast wrist movements can lead to friction burns and blindness. smile p

Michael Gilligan10/06/2021 17:19:14
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18076 forum posts
845 photos

Sorry, Howard ... I think you are perhaps missing the point that the dangers of apparently innocuous materials like Lead were not appreciated until quite recently.

We used Lead-based pigments in the paint on Baby’s toys and cot ... and gave the poor little thing tap-water that had flowed through miles of Lead pipe. None of the danger in this is revealed by “common sense” ... only by science, and the dissemination of information.

MichaelG.

Peter Greene10/06/2021 17:23:00
209 forum posts
2 photos

People get inured to it inside and outside of California.

In the US, commercials for prescription drugs are allowed on television provided the manufacturer warns of potential side effects. You might think that would lead to them putting "spin" on those side-effects to minimise them.

They do just the opposite ... they list any potential side effects, however minor and emphasise them. The result is that people become totally inured to the bad stuff and hear only what they want to, tuning out the rest.

(Commercials for Viagra-type drugs are quite amusing actually).

Edited By Peter Greene on 10/06/2021 17:24:47

Bill Davies 210/06/2021 18:54:01
218 forum posts
11 photos

And to add to the concerns about lead pipes, a government research paper (1997) estimated that 34% of houses still received water through lead pipes. I wonder how many of our houses still have lead pipes (mine does). We don't demolish many and we build a relatively small number each year.

Research Paper

But don't be too concerned, the water companies are required to ensure the water is never acidic:

pH of tap water

Makes me wonder what that 1mm of exposed tin-lead alloy in a soldered pipe connection might do to me? So why do we have to use unleaded solder in potable water supplies?

Bill

mark costello 110/06/2021 18:59:55
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646 forum posts
12 photos

When DEATH is listed as a possible side effect, I tend to not want to take the pills.

Nigel Graham 210/06/2021 20:54:00
1523 forum posts
20 photos

Wessex Water are working their way along our local streets, renewing the spurs into0 each home, and where necessary replacing any lead tails from meter to house wall, as apparently on mine though I think it's iron under the floor.

One aspect to consider, and I expect manufactuers do, is how well the general public understand hazard and risk, or even know they are not synonyms. Badly, I think - and similarly with many politicians, journalists and campaigners.

Grindstone Cowboy10/06/2021 21:21:46
620 forum posts
57 photos

Something amusing I saw recently - "Seventy years ago, your car handbook told you how to grind the valves. Now it tells you not to drink the contents of the battery."

Rob

Howard Lewis11/06/2021 10:07:33
4859 forum posts
12 photos

Lead is not the only cumulative poison, so is copper, so don't swallow the buts when you shorten cables!

As if anyone would would.

Anything is used is dangerous. cast iron dust can't be good for the lungs, and dropping a lump on your foot can be injurious.

Common sense seems to be less common than when i was a boy!

I think that Douglas Bader was told that rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

But we all have to learn, preferably from other's experience.

Howard

larry phelan 111/06/2021 17:29:23
1030 forum posts
14 photos

What about G clamps ????? I have a box full of them and use them all the time !!!!!!

No wonder I feel seedy from time to time !

On the other hand, it could be due to good red wine.

Dave Halford11/06/2021 17:42:23
1506 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by Bill Davies 2 on 10/06/2021 18:54:01:

Research Paper

But don't be too concerned, the water companies are required to ensure the water is never acidic:

pH of tap water

Bill

Back in the 80's we had a cheap alloy kettle at work in b'ham city centre, the water ate a hole straight through the bottom in 18 months.

Howard Lewis11/06/2021 17:52:23
4859 forum posts
12 photos

Obviously, the water company took the "non acidic" requirement a little too far!

Howard

Nicholas Farr11/06/2021 18:55:15
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2807 forum posts
1274 photos

Hi, as far as domestic water supply through lead pipe is concerned, it is my understanding that an oxide builds up on the inside wall of the pipe in a relatively short period of time which prevents the lead precipitating out and into the water and this state will stay the same provided that the pipe is not disturbed, e.g. it's not knocked about or subject to bending. Whether this state is affected by the pH of the water, I don't know. However, the oxide will be removed with hot water flowing through it and what I was told by my father, is it was the lead in the water that people washed and bathed in which caused the lead to be absorbed through the skin, in which people were getting poisoning from and most houses had all the hot water piping changed from lead to steel galvanised pipe and in the house that I was born and lived in until I was thirteen, all the hot water pipes were changed and the cold ones remained in place before I was born. All the houses bar one new build one, that I've lived in and in the one I am in currently have had lead pipe in the mains supply and I've never been diagnosed for having any significant level of lead in my system and have no reason to suspect that I have now and I don't have any concern about it.

Regards Nick.

Martin Kyte11/06/2021 19:24:07
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2406 forum posts
40 photos

Yes but think of the handy excuses after a night on the beer. Must have used a dodgy clamp.

;O)

Martin

Neil Wyatt11/06/2021 22:17:20
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Moderator
18630 forum posts
726 photos
79 articles

I drink whisky from a lead crystal glass, but I wouldn't keep it in a decanter of the same ilk.

You can avoid problems by drinking it promptly

Neil

pgk pgk11/06/2021 22:47:53
2123 forum posts
290 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/06/2021 22:17:20:

I drink whisky from a lead crystal glass, but I wouldn't keep it in a decanter of the same ilk.

You can avoid problems by drinking it promptly

Neil

Imbibing the digestive waste of a fungus and decomposed grain is also toxiclaugh

pgk

Clive Steer12/06/2021 09:29:17
43 forum posts

I believe in the 1700's poor cider was sweetened by adding sugar of lead and the population suffered the consequences. However the rich could take "The cure" at Bath and a recent study has shown that with prolonged immersion in water, heavy metals are lost from the body. So if you think you have accumulated any lead, copper, nickel, cadmium etc bathe more frequently. However, and here is a health warning, prolonged immersion in water can lead to drowning so the cure can be more dangerous than the illness.

Imbibing plenty of the amber nectar can reduce the anxiety caused by unnecessarily informative labels and if you suffer from such anxieties never read the information provided with medication.

Clive

Robert Atkinson 212/06/2021 10:10:17
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976 forum posts
20 photos

The warning on the slamp is probably for Chromium, not lead. If selling in CA it's easier and cheaper to put a sticker on the packet than establish that the item is safe. I blme tth laweres and insurance companies
The same thing has happened with material safety data sheets. Intended to gve practical advice, most just give worst case scenearos with over the top preautions.

Yers ago I designed lab equipment and a customer asked if we could adapt a machine to use a more viscous liquid than normal and sent a sample bottle full. The "safety officer" looked at the MSDS

(this is a similar one for same liquid https://www.fishersci.co.uk/store/msds?partNumber=10361124&productDescription=1LT+Paraffin%2C+liquid%2C+pure&countryCode=GB&language=en )

and said we could not test with it. I said "can I use baby oil?" and they said "of course, why not?" I didn't tell them it's the same thing in case they changed their mind!

Robert G8RPI.

SillyOldDuffer12/06/2021 12:05:33
Moderator
7221 forum posts
1591 photos
Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 12/06/2021 10:10:17:

I blme tth laweres and insurance companies
The same thing has happened with material safety data sheets. Intended to gve practical advice, most just give worst case scenearos with over the top preautions.

Yers ago I designed lab equipment and a customer asked if we could adapt a machine to use a more viscous liquid than normal and sent a sample bottle full. The "safety officer" looked at the MSDS ... and said we could not test with it. I said "can I use baby oil?" and they said "of course, why not?" I didn't tell them it's the same thing in case they changed their mind!

Robert G8RPI.

I blame the idiots who cause accidents!

Quite right though, "Safety Officers" can be a problem, as is anyone who doesn't do his job properly.

MSDS, and most other H&S stuff is Guidance. Mostly all the law requires is reasonable precautions. A Competent Person is supposed to do a Risk Assessment and establish what, if any, mitigations are needed.

"Safety Officers" have to supervise a wide variety of different activities and specialisms and can't be "Competent Persons" in all of them. They're not supposed to be evaluating individual MSDSs, rather they're supposed to confirm the Competent Person has done his job, which includes reading MSDS and formally deciding what to do about their advice. Plus evaluating any other risks.

Unfortunately evidence is often paperwork, and everybody hates bureaucracy! It's common for CPs to bodge the paper evidence, often because they already know the answer, but also for less creditable reasons. Not good enough! Safety Officers should reject CPs who can't produce evidence.

Waving an MSDS under the SO's nose, claiming the answer is 'common sense', or appealing to ones 50 years experience aren't evidence risk has been considered. It's impossible for the SO to tell the difference between someone whose 'common-sense' is based on solid experience and best-practice, and an overconfident lazy ignorant jackass who doesn't really know what he's doing. Inexperienced well-qualified brainiacs straight from University can be Jackasses, and so can the guy who's done the same job for 40 years, has bad-habits galore, and is completely out-of-date. And normally Competent Persons often become temporary Jackasses due to illness, over-work, or a multitude of other life distractions.

So "Safety Officers" should look for written statements from 'Competent Persons' listing all the risks identified, and what the 'Competent Person' has done to assess and mitigate them. A CP would identify all relevant MSDS, and explain how to manage the risks presented within the context of the job in hand. That varies: Baby Oil in small quantities is different from Baby Oil in large quantities, and Nitroglycerin is something else again! Managing risk ranges from 'Do Nothing', to 'Build protected Installation in open country, wear chemical protective suits, refill tanks with fire brigade in attendance, daily health checks, and agree local-area evacuation plan with the authorities'.

Sadly "Safety Officers" have human faults too. They also can be Jackasses! A few imagine they know more about the job than the CP, don't understand or exceed their remit, and I've met one who was drunk with power, I thought mentally ill! I've seen good Safety Cases on a single sheet of A4 and one than filled a 6x4' cupboard. The worst I've seen was a few hundred pages copied from a completely different project altered crudely with Find and Replace. Not good to find a project has been asserted 'safe' when the evidence lists inappropriate test equipment, inapplicable procedures, irrelevant checks, and non-existent personnel! Almost good enough to fool the Safety Officer, but not another 'Competent Person'. He had suspected enough to ask for expert help though!

We live in an imperfect world...

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 12/06/2021 12:08:45

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