By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

Turning Cartwheels

Wheel construction for an engine cart

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Roderick Jenkins16/05/2021 10:49:45
avatar
2122 forum posts
582 photos

Folks,

Excited by the springing into life of my Farm Boy engine, I'm minded to make a cart for it to sit on and rock gently back and forth when it's running.

I've been intrigued by the construction of this type of wheel (grabbed from the web)

cart wheel.jpg

The spokes and rim appears to be made from two adjacent strips of metal shaped like a Dairylea cheese triangle with a tyre fastened on with rivets.

I've seen them about at engine and agricultural shows in the UK but have not seen them on any videos of farm machinery in the US

Does anybody know if these were peculiar to any particular manufacturer?

Cheers,

Rod

Paul Lousick16/05/2021 11:36:30
1838 forum posts
659 photos

That type of wheel construction was used by a few different engine makers, like those on this 6NHP Marshall portable.

Paul.

marshall 1.jpg

Roderick Jenkins16/05/2021 12:05:43
avatar
2122 forum posts
582 photos

Paul,

That's really useful information. Lots of pictures on the web of Marshall portables with this type of wheel so I can get a better understanding of the construction.

Many thanks,

Rod

noel shelley16/05/2021 12:18:53
711 forum posts
19 photos

It would NOT be difficult to make a set of bending rolls to form the rim and the rest would be a simple fabrication job. The firm of Oliver Rix at Sculthorpe in Norfolk made wheels of this type from steel for their straw elevators into the 60s, I have some! Noel.

Paul Lousick16/05/2021 12:24:45
1838 forum posts
659 photos

And these on a Hornsby

engine wheels.jpg

JasonB16/05/2021 13:02:11
avatar
Moderator
21300 forum posts
2419 photos
1 articles

You just need to work out how you are going to cast the hub around the spokes now Rod for that authentic constructiondevil

I would think a hub made up of 3 parts would be easiest, the wider middle slotted to take the pairs of spoke ends and then a cover plate to go on each side, soldered or JBWelded together. The alternative may be to fire up your CNC and cut the six cutouts from say 6mm plate and run a vee tool down the middle of each spoke to fake the joint then add hub sides and rivit on a tyre from suitable tube or roll your own.

AdrianR16/05/2021 13:27:27
540 forum posts
36 photos

I have seen those sorts of wheels before but never thought about them till now. I have been watching EngelsCoachShop it's amazing how cartwheels are made. It just dawned on me that construction is so similar to a wooden cartwheel. The triangular sections are just a combined felloe and spoke. It could be that the hub is not cast around the spokes but the spokes are slotted into a hub, then a tire shrunk on to hold it all together.

JasonB16/05/2021 13:44:50
avatar
Moderator
21300 forum posts
2419 photos
1 articles

I'm fairly sure most were cast around the spokes in much the same way that traction engine wheels were. Some of the smaller carts had all cast wheels often with a + section spoke. Those with round spokes tended to have then threaded into the hub and peined over on the outside of the rim once trued.

A lot will depend on what "scale" Rod wants his engine to be if thinking along the lines of an air cooled hired man which has the side fan like he intends to fit then the portable type wheels will probably be too big as the cart was more the size of a sack barrow. Even for a hand drawn 4 wheel cart they would be unlikely and only really suit a large horse drawn cat for a 5hp+ engine. Though artistic licence is allowedwink 2

Roderick Jenkins16/05/2021 14:49:26
avatar
2122 forum posts
582 photos

Here's the original picture I grabbed:

cart wheel 2.jpg

Smaller versions seem to work. Difficult to gauge the scale but I doubt that starting handle is more than 12" long. I caught a passing view of one used as set dressing on 'The Repair Shop' that looked like it was about 18" in diameter and makes me think that they were used on more general agricultural implements. I also guess that they may well have been re-purposed for a cart - farmers never throw anything away.

Rod

Nigel McBurney 116/05/2021 17:21:16
avatar
910 forum posts
3 photos

I once had a 10hp Hornsby oil engine on this type of wheel and as I found they are very heavy and probably expensive to make at the time.Though no doubt they needed to be strong as many were exported and expected to stand up to hard colonial use . I assume your farm boy engine is a US style hit and miss engine ,the usual wheel for these had round steel spokes riveted at the rim,how they fitted in the hub I do not know ,never seen a broken one or been asked to repair one. though some people regard these engines as cheap and rough, the more popular ones eg Amanco (associated) were made in vast numbers at really competative prices and are the result of first class low cost production engineering so I doubt if the spokes were threaded in ,more likely just a tight fit and held in place by the rim.

JasonB16/05/2021 17:31:34
avatar
Moderator
21300 forum posts
2419 photos
1 articles

Typical cart barrow for a small air cooled engine.

ihc barrow.jpg

old mart16/05/2021 19:13:04
3312 forum posts
203 photos

You could fit the spokes into the holes in the hub and fit the rim last to hold it all together.

br16/05/2021 19:22:18
697 forum posts
3 photos

Interesting engine - any thoughts as if American, English, or ?

bill

Paul Lousick16/05/2021 23:38:25
1838 forum posts
659 photos

International Harvester logo on the engine. American

JasonB17/05/2021 07:15:21
avatar
Moderator
21300 forum posts
2419 photos
1 articles

If you are asking about the one I posted then it's and IHC (International Harvester Co) "Tom Thumb" engine from the US.

This is also an American, Asociated "chore Boy" 

chior boy.jpg

This and this catalogue have a good range of carts to suit the various engines, the opening pages of the first show that a lot of these engines were quite small and power things that we would have an electric motor on now or maybe just a small Briggs etc.

 

Edited By JasonB on 17/05/2021 07:15:59

martin perman17/05/2021 11:10:33
avatar
2005 forum posts
83 photos

Those of us who restore stationary engines build our trolleys using cast iron wheels from old barrows etc, a set of four wheels can now cost upwards of £60 to £70, as an alternative some enginemen make them out of large dia pipes to make the rims with a length of machined bar for the centre and smaller pieces of bar or flat stock as spokes.

Martin P

 

 

Edited By martin perman on 17/05/2021 11:12:01

Roderick Jenkins21/06/2021 23:24:36
avatar
2122 forum posts
582 photos

Thanks again for the input chaps and especially to Jason for those links. So far it seems that Marshalls, Hornsby and Boulton and Paul all seemed to use this form of wheel sometimes - all based in the east of England, I wonder if they outsourced them?

I've had a go at making my own so I 3D printed some fixtures (jigs?)

cart wheel 5.jpg

cart wheel 7.jpg

cart wheel 9a.jpg

The hubs were sandwiched together with JB Weld

cart wheels.jpg

I made 2 sizes (50mm and 65MM diam.) with the idea of making a trolley with a steerable front axle but am coming round to using the smaller pair for a hand cart as in the Chore Boy illustration. The larger wheels were brush painted with straight to metal paint - horrible, will have to come off if I decide to use them

Cheers,

Rod

Jon Lawes22/06/2021 05:15:08
avatar
635 forum posts

Some lovely work there, congratulations Rod.

JasonB22/06/2021 07:29:03
avatar
Moderator
21300 forum posts
2419 photos
1 articles

They look the part Rod.

br22/06/2021 08:16:01
697 forum posts
3 photos

Good to see - excellent job.

bill

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
rapid Direct
Dreweatts
Eccentric July 5 2018
JD Metals
Warco
emcomachinetools
cowells
walker midge
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest