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Fitting a Drill Chuck Confusion

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William Harvey 104/05/2021 18:32:27
25 forum posts

Hi,

We have a Warco WM180.

It was supplied with some additional recommended parts to get us up and running, one of which was a Keyless Drill Chuck.I went to test fit it tonight but am a little confused dont know

The only way I can see to fit the Drill Chuck is to fit it in the TailStock using one of the two Dead Centres. The Lathe comes with 2 (2MT & 3MT), both of these appear to spin in the TailStock and the Drill Chuck surely needs to be held securely?

The other is a 2MT Arbour B16, I cannot remember what that was to be used for, but I tried it on the Drill Chuck, whilst it fits it still spins.

Are the Morse Tapers designed to be friction fits, if so which one should I use and I guess I need to give it a gentle tap with a nylon hammer or something?

noel shelley04/05/2021 18:38:21
570 forum posts
18 photos

Put it in with a thump an all will be well. Yes it is a friction fit. Noel.

Jon Lawes04/05/2021 18:43:28
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556 forum posts

Yes its a friction fit. For longevity keep it clean of swarf, but yes a tap with a rubber mallet can help. You don't need to swing it like thor, just a tap.

I've made a small hammer for tapping and aligning things (brass headed) which I keep hung up near the lathe; I've made the handle length right for popping down the centre of the tailstock for tapping the taper back out.

JasonB04/05/2021 18:52:03
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Moderator
20637 forum posts
2296 photos
1 articles

Wind the tailstock barrel out a bit more then the ctrs and arbor will go in far enough to grip.

Frances IoM04/05/2021 18:54:06
1118 forum posts
27 photos
the 3MT is for the headstock
double check that the barrel of the tailstock doesn't rotate its only stopped by the small grub screw in the slot - this needs a nut to lock it in place
also check that the taper on the arbor is not damaged as well as check the tailstock - also the fitting of the tailstock screw may mean that you need extend the barrel a little so that the arbor will fit properly otherwise it is prevented by the screw - on my 180 with most arbours it means the barrel needs to be extended about 12mm. You shouldn't need to thump it just a hard push and it will hold but do watch it doesn't rotate in the barrel if the drill catches (eg drilling brass)and scars it - if it had then buy a 2MT reamer and very gently clean the barrel
ETA if the arbour has a screw thread (eg as used in mills) either buy an 10mm end from Arc or make one as if you forget it you need to dismantle the tailstock to release the arbor-

Edited By Frances IoM on 04/05/2021 18:55:07

Edited By Frances IoM on 04/05/2021 19:00:59

Derek Lane04/05/2021 18:54:10
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436 forum posts
92 photos

Have you wound the tailstock quill out enough as some have a self ejecting system before trying to tap it in

Clive Foster04/05/2021 18:56:16
2699 forum posts
96 photos

Nice new tapers should hold OK under momentum if you just "flick" it in. Moderate thump is generally for when things get old and, inevitably, a bit grubby and a bit worn.

Three gotchas:-

1) Most tailstocks have a slot at the end of the internal taper to accommodate the tang. Some also have a cross hole for an extractor wedge like a drill quill. Need to line the tang up with the slot before the arbor will go in. Slot is usually either horizontal or vertical. I have two lathes and the slot on one one is horizontal the other is vertical.

2) Pretty much all lathes with a closed back end to the tailstock poppet use the tailstock feed screw to eject the taper when the poppet is close to fully retracted. If you have the poppet pulled back too far the tang on the arbor contacts the end of the feed screw before the taper is fully home. So the drill chuck taper can't go in far enough to lock. Typically ejection happens in the last 1/2" to 1" of tailstock poppet travel. Usually nearer 1/2".

3) Some lathes don't have a slot for the tang so you have to use plain ended tapers or screw a threaded plug into the end so the self eject has something to push on. Unlikely to be the case with your machine. If it were so Warco would have given you a flat end arbor. Not common because it stops you using morse taper drills.

Clive

PS Need to type faster!

Edited By Clive Foster on 04/05/2021 18:57:30

Emgee04/05/2021 18:57:48
2047 forum posts
258 photos

If using a tang type tool on my Bantam the tang has to be in the correct orientation to engage fully, possibly the same with your lathe.

Emgee

Clive beat me to the point.

Edited By Emgee on 04/05/2021 18:58:38

Frances IoM04/05/2021 19:03:23
1118 forum posts
27 photos
my WM180 has flat end arbors - no tang
Nicholas Farr04/05/2021 19:09:09
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2808 forum posts
1274 photos

Hi, most hobby lathes have a short 2MT taper and as has been said, you well need to have the barrel sticking out more, maybe as much as 25mm. In many times past, you could get chucks fitted with a short taper but they don't seem to be around now. Of course you can cut a bit off the taper to make it into a short one, but don't cut too much off in one go as the self eject may not reach.

Regards Nick.

William Harvey 104/05/2021 21:38:55
25 forum posts

OK thanks everyone

Simon Collier04/05/2021 22:26:18
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404 forum posts
58 photos

I cut the tang off my 3MT tailstock chuck as I had to wind the barrel out excessively to get the taper home.

Mike Poole04/05/2021 22:58:53
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Moderator
2989 forum posts
71 photos

If the machine is new it is probably worth degreasing the socket and chuck taper, lubrication is not your friend with a morse taper.

Mike

Hopper04/05/2021 23:15:29
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5505 forum posts
137 photos
Posted by William Harvey 1 on 04/05/2021 18:32:27:

The other is a 2MT Arbour B16, I cannot remember what that was to be used for, but I tried it on the Drill Chuck, whilst it fits it still spins.

I\

If you are saying the arbor is a loose fit in the chuck body, which it appears to be in the pic, you need to give it a good whack with a brass hammer, or a hammer and brass drift or block of hardwood. This will drive the B16 taper into the chuck so that it stays there as a permanent fitting. Clean both tapers thoroughly before fitting together. Sit chuck firmly upright on on the bench for installation.

The arbor then can be installed in the tailstock, once the quill is wound out far enough and is usually seated home by a good swift ramming home, or a light tap with nylon hammer etc. Winding the quill back in should self-eject the chuck and arbor as a unit.

not done it yet05/05/2021 06:28:16
5946 forum posts
20 photos

Some checking for contact areas, with engineer’s blue might be appropriate? Arbors and sockets have been known to not match. I have had this experience, which is why I am very selective on the origin of such close tolerance items. Don’t necessarily expect cheap chinese components to be accurate.

Howard Lewis05/05/2021 20:14:33
4866 forum posts
12 photos

+1 for checking that the self eject is not causing your problem. As advised, wind the Tailstock barrel out some way (At least 50 mm ) and check that the 2 MT arbor then grips in the CLEAN taper bore..

If it does, winding the barrel back in should eject the arbor. Problem solved! Note for future reference.

All part of getting to know your machine. Does the operator manual not tell you this?

If it is the chuck spinning on the Arbor, it may be that the taper for the chuck, on the arbor is not the same as that in the drill chuck

Try checking the B16 taper against the drill chuck, with blue. If you don't have any blue, coat the tape, all over, with a felt tip pen and then rotate the arbor in the drill chuck. If the internal and external tapers differ, there will only be a bright ring where the two tapers have made contact. If the blue is removed completely, the tapers match. All that is then needed is to make sure that both tapers are clean, before pushing the arbor into the drill chuck. Retract the chuck jaws into the chuck body, hold the assembly by the 2MT and bang it hard on a piece of wood on the bench.

Find a local Model Engineering Society and join. You can ask all manner of questions face to face, and probably get one to one advice in person.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 05/05/2021 20:15:38

ega05/05/2021 21:10:40
2140 forum posts
176 photos

I recently commissioned a keyless chuck with B16 taper hole in back, was struck by how far the thick end of the taper arbor projected from the chuck so went to the trouble of turning my own arbor.

The point is apparent from the OP's photo.

Frances IoM05/05/2021 21:47:19
1118 forum posts
27 photos
you will soon find a need for a small keyed chuck as the WM180 is very restricted in bed length and that very fancy chuck takes up a lot of it.

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