By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

Repair It? Wossat Mean, Like?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Robin Dufton04/05/2021 20:11:37
16 forum posts
Posted by J Hancock on 04/05/2021 14:18:25:

The year , 1938 , the launch of MV Gienearn , immediately requisitioned by the Royal Navy for heroic war service.

The year , 1968 , MV Glenearn still performing up with ' modern ' ships of this '68 era.

Now that is real, 24hr/day 'reliability', only achieved by rugged design and available spares.

Of course, we scrapped everything so as not to leave a trace of history of this legend.

Age doesn't prove anything. I've sailed on cheap and poorly built ships that had been very badly neglected, and they were still earning money after 30+ years.

Nigel Graham 204/05/2021 21:05:22
1420 forum posts
20 photos

I think there are two other shameless practices that ought be stamped on.

One is the price-by-use fraud, typical of major car manufacturers, whereby an identical part is priced according to the particular make and model that uses it. It was an Audi/VW dealer who told me this - VW's main spares warehouse is twinned with one labelled 'Audi', and the same parts are much pricier in the latter. If bought-in components they are likely to be much costlier than the same ones in boxes labelled as say, Ford, spares. To disguise the fact, the parts are given identity-numbers by different systems. These companies are by no means alone in it though; and the insurers are in cahoots with the racket by their insistence on using only the main-dealers' OEM supplies.

The second, and related, is the deliberate making it very hard to carry out what should be basic roadside repairs such as replacing a failed lamp. There is no excuse for having to remove bodywork panels as is the case on one or two vehicles, for a repair that is fundamentally easy and may be necessary to be legal.

Robert Atkinson 204/05/2021 21:32:20
avatar
946 forum posts
18 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 04/05/2021 18:19:08:
Posted by J Hancock on 04/05/2021 14:18:25:

Now that is real, 24hr/day 'reliability', only achieved by rugged design and available spares.

Indeed having and needing the spares. No menion of how much that repair and maintenance cost.

<SNIP>

Anyway the real problem is not just production cost paring but the lawyers. For each new product we have to make the 12v power supply connector incompatible with all our other products or go to the expense of having each combination of interchange requalified at costs of around £50k per set.

What sort of equipment? Most manufacturers buy 3rd party fully, normally word wide, approved external power supplies so they don't have to bother with the multitude of mains certifications. Even medically certified (low leakage current) one are available. Only thing I can think of is ATEX approved equipment.

Robert G8RPI.

Simon036204/05/2021 22:06:45
218 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 04/05/2021 21:05:22:

I think there are two other shameless practices that ought be stamped on.

One is the price-by-use fraud, typical of major car manufacturers, whereby an identical part is priced according to the particular make and model that uses it. It was an Audi/VW dealer who told me this - VW's main spares warehouse is twinned with one labelled 'Audi', and the same parts are much pricier in the latter. If bought-in components they are likely to be much costlier than the same ones in boxes labelled as say, Ford, spares. To disguise the fact, the parts are given identity-numbers by different systems. These companies are by no means alone in it though; and the insurers are in cahoots with the racket by their insistence on using only the main-dealers' OEM supplies.

The second, and related, is the deliberate making it very hard to carry out what should be basic roadside repairs such as replacing a failed lamp. There is no excuse for having to remove bodywork panels as is the case on one or two vehicles, for a repair that is fundamentally easy and may be necessary to be legal.

I think it comes with the territory of "more expensive car/whatever, means that you are expecting to pay more for the parts". Having run an expensive classic from the early 1970s for some 30 years, I long ago gave up quoting even the marque but requested the particular Jaguar, British Leyland (remember them??), Hillman, whatever parts that were scattered about the car and expected at least a 50% reduction in price. Didn't always work, the brake calipers are shared with an even rarer Maserarti...
If anything its now easier for us to hunt down the cheaper part thanks to the inter-webby thing - I am glad to depart from typed, photocopied lists with barely readable cross references that have one or two people suggesting them.

Martin King 204/05/2021 22:16:45
780 forum posts
302 photos

Many years ago we needed a door handle mechanism for a Ferrari, the price from Maranello Concssionaires the dealer was in 3 figures even back then.

Found out that the handle on a Fiat X19 was exactly the same item for about 15% of the price from a Fiat dealer!

Nothing changes...

Cheers, Martin

Mike Poole05/05/2021 06:55:49
avatar
Moderator
2970 forum posts
70 photos

Compatible parts are probably more widely spread than even vehicles built under the same umbrella group. Engines are one area where there has been collaboration between rival manufacturers. It’s funny how even oil has become manufacturer specific, I wonder if they really do brew up a special formula for some manufacturers and if it really matters if you just use the generic product. You used to see specific suppliers endorsed on stickers or in handbooks but I suspect they were little more than paid for adverts.

Mike

Martin Kyte05/05/2021 08:28:53
avatar
2354 forum posts
39 photos
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 04/05/2021 21:05:22:

I think there are two other shameless practices that ought be stamped on.

One is the price-by-use fraud, typical of major car manufacturers, whereby an identical part is priced according to the particular make and model that uses it. It was an Audi/VW dealer who told me this - VW's main spares warehouse is twinned with one labelled 'Audi', and the same parts are much pricier in the latter. If bought-in components they are likely to be much costlier than the same ones in boxes labelled as say, Ford, spares. To disguise the fact, the parts are given identity-numbers by different systems. These companies are by no means alone in it though; and the insurers are in cahoots with the racket by their insistence on using only the main-dealers' OEM supplies.

That's just progressive taxation. I approve of the gentle pressure to buy cheaper cars.

regards Martin

Kiwi Bloke05/05/2021 11:40:36
532 forum posts
1 photos

Oh dear, I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved in this thread - it's a health hazard...

I'm a committed repairer and restorer and hate what is happening to manufactured goods.

Designed-in obsolescence has been with us a long time. Look on the 'Tube for 'The Light-bulb Conspiracy', but be cautious if your blood pressure is unstable. This cynical attitude to business is a disgrace, but it's not going to go away. The public is required to conform, comply and consume. Simple.

Of course, if the consumer wants to buy cheap, that is what he'll get.

The problem is more widespread than manufacturers' reprehensible practices. It's now getting difficult for the privateer to perform legally many DIY tasks that were routine only a couple of decades ago. Here in NZ, legal DIY plumbing and electrical work is made stupidly difficult by legislation. This is effectively policed by the relevant trades' associations, so the poachers are now gamekeepers. I understand that In Oz, it's even worse - the householder can't even legally loosen a wall light-switch surround to make decorating easier. This is all in the name of 'safety'. So, conform, comply and consume, and snuggle down in the nice cotton-wool wadding the government wants to smother you with. It's for your own good.

Keith Hudson 205/05/2021 11:57:25
3 forum posts
Posted by Martin Kyte on 05/05/2021 08:28:53:
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 04/05/2021 21:05:22:

I think there are two other shameless practices that ought be stamped on.

One is the price-by-use fraud, typical of major car manufacturers, whereby an identical part is priced according to the particular make and model that uses it. It was an Audi/VW dealer who told me this - VW's main spares warehouse is twinned with one labelled 'Audi', and the same parts are much pricier in the latter. If bought-in components they are likely to be much costlier than the same ones in boxes labelled as say, Ford, spares. To disguise the fact, the parts are given identity-numbers by different systems. These companies are by no means alone in it though; and the insurers are in cahoots with the racket by their insistence on using only the main-dealers' OEM supplies.

That's just progressive taxation. I approve of the gentle pressure to buy cheaper cars.

regards Martin

Running an older Audi, as I do, it can be used to your advantage, for a few years after Audi discontinue spares support you can still get many items from the VW or Skoda parts listings.

Gerard O'Toole05/05/2021 12:43:16
121 forum posts
10 photos

I think rules are changing to make manufacturers make their products repairable.

not done it yet05/05/2021 12:53:43
5870 forum posts
20 photos

Posted by Kiwi Bloke on 05/05/2021 11:40:36:

....

....

....

This is all in the name of 'safety'. So, conform, comply and consume, and snuggle down in the nice cotton-wool wadding the government wants to smother you with. It's for your own good.

It is also a matter of ‘keeping the workers busy’ - and improving the taxation income.

Remember, the government disapproves of thieves. Why? Because they don’t like the competition!

Rex Hanman05/05/2021 17:43:38
82 forum posts
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 04/05/2021 21:05:22:

One is the price-by-use fraud, typical of major car manufacturers, whereby an identical part is priced according to the particular make and model that uses it. It was an Audi/VW dealer who told me this - VW's main spares warehouse is twinned with one labelled 'Audi', and the same parts are much pricier in the latter. If bought-in components they are likely to be much costlier than the same ones in boxes labelled as say, Ford, spares. To disguise the fact, the parts are given identity-numbers by different systems. These companies are by no means alone in it though; and the insurers are in cahoots with the racket by their insistence on using only the main-dealers' OEM supplies.

During my youth, my first car was a Mini. Not knowing a thing about car repairs I called into a local main agent to ask what a new clutch would cost. I was given a stupid price for the bits, but when I asked about the cost of fitting it the nice gentleman said "Oh, I'll have to check the hourly rate for that."

That's when I found out that main agents charge differing hourly rates depending on how expensive the car was originally! I fitted a new clutch myself.

Nigel Graham 205/05/2021 17:58:56
1420 forum posts
20 photos

Someone once told me he bought a 5l can of the Recommended oil for his Ford-whatever-it-was... and was surprised to find it no more expensive at least from the garage he used, than the generic equivalent. I suppose Ford or their dealers realised they'd sell more of the "Approved" Ford-branded lubricant if they priced it competitively.

Hewlett-Packard Chief Inks Officer, are you there...?

Howard Lewis05/05/2021 18:00:55
4744 forum posts
10 photos

With my first computer came an Epson printer. Eventually, for no good reason, (other than a message saying that it was worn out ), it stopped working. Apparently it incorporates a counter, so that after a finite number of prints it ceases operation.

A local computer shop reset the counter form £40. next time it failed, presumably for the same built in obsolescence, it was as cheap to buy a new, more sophisticated Canon printer/scanner/copier.

Now, I wonder what unpleasant surprises that has in store for me?

Regarding engines, we expected a life of at least 5,000 hours. Through poor maintenance and operation some didn't make that One in the channel tunnel, with careful servicing was still going strong at 27,000 hours!

No wonder Sales Dept complained that we over engineered them!

I have seen "Genuine" spares for several different marques coming down the same line, in batches, as generic aftermarket parts. Guess which cost less when you bought it?

Having grown up in an age when replacements were not available, and "Make Do and Mend" HAD to be the watchword, scrapping something instead of a repair is total anathema.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 05/05/2021 18:01:25

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
cowells
Eccentric July 5 2018
emcomachinetools
Warco
ChesterUK
JD Metals
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest