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How Many Barristers Needed To Change An Ink Cartridge?

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Nigel Graham 216/04/2021 15:19:06
1398 forum posts
20 photos

The first answer is of course "None" - barristers can afford IT Consultants.

However...

I was driven up the wall by refill or pattern cartridges from the same supplier as previously, not working this time in two HP ink-jet printers.

The answer - fingers crossed - was that if you don't read the "Empty or counterfeit" error-questions very, very carefully it is easy to make the wrong selection, whereupon the printer's software immediately renders even a brand-new cartridge un-useable!

I consider myself reasonably literate. I may not quite recall the difference between a sentence's subject and object clauses; I am not sure why an ellipsis is not an ellipse. Nevertheless I usually spot tautology, misapplied technical terms, obfuscation and etymological idiocies...

Yet I had to read the sample messages containing none of those, in a trouble-solving section on the Printerinks.com site, about 3 or 4 times before I spotted the subtlety it warns of.

Rumpole would have seen it immediately.

That was a costly mistake.

I'd already ruined a complete set and put ink all over my fingers by inadvertently removing the wrong seals. Now it seems I'd also switched them off, permanently, anyway.

Perhaps the printer-manufacturers employ barristers - or attorneys as they call them Over There - as error-message writers.....

Peter Greene16/04/2021 15:58:59
189 forum posts
2 photos

I take it this is the Printerinks site you are referring to.

I see your problem!

Nigel Graham 216/04/2021 17:15:30
1398 forum posts
20 photos

That's the one.

I've ordered more inks and placed a print of the page on the A3 printer, ready for when they arrive. (Quite possibly tomorrow or Monday if the cartridges I ordered for my other printer were a guide - their service is good!)

The A4 printer is the workhorse, the A3 size for CAD and I'd reached the point of doing without it or changing it for a different model.

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 16/04/2021 17:15:48

Steviegtr16/04/2021 19:21:15
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2009 forum posts
272 photos

Read post wrongly

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 16/04/2021 19:23:50

Peter Greene16/04/2021 22:10:42
189 forum posts
2 photos

With a nod towards your original post, Steve, it's hard to see how HP can get away with rendering someone's property (the cartridge) unusable just because HP doesn't like it.

It smacks of the software developer who not only detected peoples unregistered, cracked versions of his software but loaded them a worm to pay them back.

Edited By Peter Greene on 16/04/2021 22:13:13

David Caunt16/04/2021 22:22:09
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68 forum posts
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Amazing.

This afternoon I tried printing something on my Canon MG6851 and I got the message problem with ink cartridge its not the correct item. The statement was correct I've always used replacement inks from from the same on line company not the originals and never had a problem.

Does this mean that a bug is going round re printers. Mine is connected with a cable not Wi-Fi.

I also read with interest the other post re laser printers. My original inkjet packed up years ago and I decided to go to using a laser. At the famous family store I asked for advice and was given the name of a Samsung printer that would do all I wanted.

Only when I came to print my usual self made Christmas cards on 270gm paper did I find out it couldn't cope with such heavy paper!!!!!. It sits in my basement now unused.

That's why I went back to the Inkjet which I used successfully for a number of years

I did manage to get it working.

Dave.

Edited By David Caunt on 16/04/2021 22:22:49

Nigel Graham 217/04/2021 17:03:18
1398 forum posts
20 photos

Peter -

HP is not doing that "just because" though its approach is certainly heavy-handed.

As Printerinks' site says, it is trying to protect itself from genuine counterfeiters, but in this case, there is no counterfeiting. The cartridges are sold honestly as refill or pattern ones "compatible with" X printers by Y maker; they do not carry the HP trade-mark, the carton design does not resemble HP's. Nor does the price, but the replacements are still not cheap.

The warning is a question carefully worded to make you think "Yes" accepts using the cartridges at your own risk. Whereas you need press "No", meaning that you "do not believe they contain" new, original ink. Of course you do not believe they don't, you know they don't; but it's a sort of leading question.

They may also place a dire warning that that they would not honour a warrantee claim for a printer fault "due to" using non-OEM ink, but it is hard to see how they could possibly prove that. The cartridge might cause problems if internally faulty, but that would be the supplier's responsibility. Once the guarantee has expired it's meaningless anyway!

The big-name IT suppliers are big enough to just ignore disappointed customers, but can't actually stop you using non-OEM replacements. Understandably, they have to protect themselves, and real counterfeiting is a serious problem across whole swathes of commerce. It may make it difficult for us, but we just need be as sharp as they are.

Even so they would be better simply warning you the cartridges are not OEM ones, if passed off under their trade-mark are fraudulent, and may cause problems for which the printer manufacturer could not be held responsible. They could of course also put a bit more on the machine price, but sell that with full cartridges, and charge a bit less for new cartridges...

'

David -

Interesting question. Not a bug perhaps, and I doubt the connection to the printer is the problem, but I wonder if your computer or printer "rings home" to pick up any discreet "up-dates", such as new cartridge-recognition routines.

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 17/04/2021 17:07:07

Stuart Munro 118/04/2021 12:57:37
76 forum posts

I think inkjet printers are designed to frustrate non engineers (of which I'm one!). They jam and need a Phd to unjam, the ink runs out and someone used to working with F1 engines is needed to change the cartridge.

As an Accountant - not a barrister - i can tell you that it takes 17 accountants plus VAT less 10% discount to change an ink cartridge, or one good P.A.

Stuart

Stuart Munro 118/04/2021 13:18:16
76 forum posts

A serious explanation. HP, Canon et al make considerably more money from inks than from the printers so wish to discourage the use of 3rd party inks. Sometimes it can make sense to stick to the manufactures' own inks but normally generic ones from businesses like printerinks are OK.

From personal experience with an A2 canon photo printer I'd stick with the manufacturer. These printers use very fine injet nozzles which can clog up quickly with the wrong kind of ink. So I found that I needed to print every 2/3 days to stop 3rd party inks clogging whereas Canons own could go a month.

An if the jets clog you waste lots of ink flushing out the system.

Stuart

Nigel Graham 218/04/2021 14:09:07
1398 forum posts
20 photos

A good point, Stuart.

Their business model is no secret and I don't like it, but I wonder if there is another factor to consider.

I 'd have thought the inks were made in 45-gallon drums-full somewhere and the different manufacturers simply buy those, but you've made me wonder if they differ slightly between makes to suit the mechanical details and conditions of the machines. For one thing the ink has to dry very rapidly, within a time dictated by the printer's feed rate.

This would mean the reputable refill companies would need ensure buying the right ink grades of course.

Years ago I tried one of those DIY refill kits but had very poor results from it, suggesting the ink was incompatible with the particular printer. (I forget the make.)

V8Eng18/04/2021 14:30:32
1574 forum posts
32 photos

Ordinary HP printers have a distinct advantage in that their cartridges have the nozzles built in so blocked nozzles only mean a cartridge change at worst.

Stuart Munro 118/04/2021 16:16:56
76 forum posts
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 18/04/2021 14:09:07:

A good point, Stuart.

Their business model is no secret and I don't like it, but I wonder if there is another factor to consider.

I 'd have thought the inks were made in 45-gallon drums-full somewhere and the different manufacturers simply buy those, but you've made me wonder if they differ slightly between makes to suit the mechanical details and conditions of the machines. For one thing the ink has to dry very rapidly, within a time dictated by the printer's feed rate.

This would mean the reputable refill companies would need ensure buying the right ink grades of course.

Years ago I tried one of those DIY refill kits but had very poor results from it, suggesting the ink was incompatible with the particular printer. (I forget the make.)

I did quite lot of research to see if I could use the big external tanks on my canon photo printer and found out that the viscosity of the ink matches the nozzle very carefully so that the flow rate is correct, too slow and you don't get a constant flow, too thin and you get blotches. The nozzle and ink are matched carefully and generic inks would need to match each printer to achieve the same. Look at different types of printer from one manufacturer and the inks (not just the cartridge) are not interchangeable. But the 'office' printer is built to be more robust, occasional use and thus more tolerant of generic inks.

So if you want a quality photo printer, you pay a fortune for ink. I gave up and now have any photos I want to frame professionally printed - its actually cheaper!

Stuart

Andrew Tinsley18/04/2021 17:30:02
1387 forum posts

Just had the same problem with an HP laser printer. Been using 3rd party toners for a couple of years with excellent results. Then HP did an "upgrade" and now the printer won't recognise the cartridges.

Looks as though I will need to find an earlier driver version (from where I know not) and simply forbid upgrades. Might not bother HP but that is the last time I buy any of their products.

Andrew.

Stuart Munro 120/04/2021 08:55:56
76 forum posts

Andrew - fully understand your frustration with HP but I think all manufacturer are moving this way. Pen and ink looks to be the only way to avoid the problem.

Stuart

Nick Clarke 320/04/2021 09:23:05
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1191 forum posts
49 photos
Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 18/04/2021 17:30:02:

Just had the same problem with an HP laser printer. Been using 3rd party toners for a couple of years with excellent results. Then HP did an "upgrade" and now the printer won't recognise the cartridges.

Looks as though I will need to find an earlier driver version (from where I know not) and simply forbid upgrades. Might not bother HP but that is the last time I buy any of their products.

Andrew.

Working from memory I suspect it may be a printer issue, not a driver one. At work we have 5 identical HP laser printers that are connected to the PC network and also are set up so braille note-takers can print locally over USB. One day the local printing stopped on 4 of them - investigating it turned out the non-working printers had automatically downloaded a printer software upgrade which was the problem - not the device that was trying to print. I think I got the firmware to downgrade the printers from the HP website and then there was an option on the printer to prevent any more firmware updates.

Oily Rag20/04/2021 17:29:49
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387 forum posts
142 photos

Yet another 'scam' by the printer manufacturers is the rate of printing. Higher priced machines have a faster print rate, probably anything upto 3 times faster than the bargain basement products. But, the machines are all identical internally except for a pin selector switch to 'slow' the print rate down on the low cost version. We had a high cost machine that wasn't performing to the expected page print rate and when the service engineer came to look at it he opened the printer up and selected the 'fast' option and went away - saying someone on the build line had set the switch in the wrong (ie cheap!) position.

Martin

Andrew Tinsley20/04/2021 18:23:09
1387 forum posts

Hi Martin,

I did mean to say firmware and not driver. HP have now removed all the old firmware from their site. Now what a surprise!

Fortunately a 3rd party supplier has the needed firmware on their site, for you to down load. A very welcome two fingers to HP.

Andrew.

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