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David Adair12/03/2021 09:39:53
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4 forum posts
5 photos

Hi bought this as a basket case off web not sure of model or year could anyone give any info please just a beginner and my first lathe .
Cheers David

Hopper12/03/2021 10:55:06
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6393 forum posts
334 photos

Looks like one of the ML1 to 4 series. Lathes.co.uk will have all the info.

Philip Rowe12/03/2021 11:03:16
229 forum posts
31 photos

Looks to me like a ML1 as it has an all in one bed and headstock casting, the fitted chuck is in my opinion oversized for the poor spindle. Otherwise a good start for you to learn about turning, don't be tempted to over tighten the headstock bearing housing the casting can easily crack, don't ask how l know this. My first lathe was an ML2 very similar to yours the main difference being separate headstock and bed castings and I do remember the serial number was L277.

Phil

Oldiron12/03/2021 11:39:51
975 forum posts
40 photos

A very nice setup. I do agree with Phillip that the chuck is oversize for this model lathe.

regards

Georgineer12/03/2021 17:21:58
577 forum posts
32 photos

David,

I can do no better than to quote myself from another thread:

"Some simple measurements and observations can identify which of the different models ML1 to ML4 one is faced with:

ML1 & 2: 3 1/8" centre height, 15" between centres, 3 1/2" cross slide travel.

ML3 & 4: 3 1/2" centre height, 24" between centres, 4 1/2" cross slide travel.

ML1 & 3 ('Standard' models): Spindle bearings direct in headstock.

ML2 & 4 ('Superior' models): Bronze spindle bearings, shrouded ball thrust race.

My understanding from lathes.co.uk is that the cast-in headstock was abandoned in 1937, so from then until the ML1 and ML3 went out of production in 1941, all models had the removable headstock."

The ML4 used three different spindle nose threads, Earlier ones 7/8" x 9tpi or 7/8" x 12 tpi. Later ones used 1 1/8" x 12 tpi (the same as the ML7 but with a smaller register diameter). I don't know what threads were used on the ML 1,2 &3 but they would almost certainly have been the same."

All my information has come from Myford documents or from lathes.co.uk. Some time ago I wrote to Tony at lathes.co.uk suggesting that it would be helpful if he put this information as a table in his website, but it hasn't happened.

Incidentally, if you do searches on this forum for "ML1" through to "ML4" you will discover that there is a wealth of valuable information and experience concerning that family of lathes."

George B.

Edited By Georgineer on 12/03/2021 17:23:11

Howard Lewis13/03/2021 12:28:56
6104 forum posts
14 photos

The Serial umber is likely to be found on the front face of the bed, below the Headstock.

The Mandrel thread, assuming that it has not been changed, will give an approximate guide to the year of manufacture.

To be more specific, you need to look at Lathes UK, and search for other threads on here about the ML1 - 4 lathes.

All threads will be either BSW or BSF. The Gib adjusters may be BA.

The Headstock is secured to the bed by four 1/4 BSF studs and nuts.

The Tailstock alignment, not the best feature, is by 1/4 BSW. stud and nut.

The Tailstock Barrel is located by a 1/4 BSF grubscrew with the end machined or filed into a key, so some experimentation may be required to get the preferred fit..

The Driving Collars for the Changewheels are secured by 1/4 BSF grubscrews

The Changewheels are locked to the Driving Collars, or to each other (For Compounding ) by 3/32" pins, in blind drillings.

You may well find that the main Leadscrew is Right Hand thread,meaning that two Idlers or Compound gears are required to move the Saddle towards the Headstock.

It may be worth acquiring extra 20T changewheels, and another 60T.

Changewheels from 7 Series can be used, differing only in that the 7 Series used a key, rather than a pin, so that a 3/32" hole will need to be drilled to accept the drive pin.

A 20:60/20:65/20:60 set up (If you can obtain the extra 20T and 60T wheels ) will provide a fine feed of 0.0043"/per rev. This may require some fettling of the Mandrel end of the slot in the banjo to allow the studs to fit to give a suitable backlash for each mesh.

My preference is always to start setting the mesh from the Leadscrew, working back towards the Mandrel; where the Banjo is swung to set the backlash. The studs are adjusted along the Banjo, before it is finally swung up towards the mandrel. Two thicknesses of paper usually suffice to set this.

The Leadscrews on the Cross and Top Slides are 12 tpi, and the dials have 80 graduations, so that each graduation is not exactly 0.001" (0.001041" )

HTH

Howard

Howard Lewis13/03/2021 12:36:07
6104 forum posts
14 photos

It lacks a cover for the Changewheels. (Well worth having or making. It saves oil being thrown over the operator and up the wall behind the machine ). Most had a bracket secured to the back of the Headstock by two 5/16 BSW setscrews. This cover hinges upwards on a horizontal bar in the cast bracket. 

I made a cover for the one that I recommissioned, from Aluminium sheet, pop rivetted together, alongside the machine. It was 140 miles from home! ) Thankfully, the bracket was there, when we worked out what it was for!

Lathes UK say that a rarer version has a side hinged cover.

Howard  Double word deleted

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/03/2021 12:36:49

Georgineer13/03/2021 13:52:24
577 forum posts
32 photos

Howard, if I can follow up on some of your points:

The photo shows this lathe as having a cast-in headstock, so it is presumably 1937 or earlier. Lathes at that time were supplied without guards either for changewheels or backgear and I don't believe any provision was made for fitting them. We had to drill holes to fit a backgear guard to my lathe, and it still doesn't have a changewheel guard. I've never had a problem with the changewheels flinging oil out, and I've managed over the years to avoid falling into the works. Naturally, I would fit a guard if anybody else used the workshop.

Early lathes had no serial number, so David is unlikely to find one.

Incidentally David, your carriage handwheel is not original. As made, the carriage moves the opposite way to every other lathe I've ever used, which can take a bit of getting used to. There have been conversion kits made, and if you are lucky you've got one to go with the replacement handle.

That said, it's a nice lathe and I've done a lot of useful work on mine.

George B.

Hopper13/03/2021 13:56:11
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6393 forum posts
334 photos

Easy fix for oil fling from change gears is to lube them with clear teflon motorcycle chain lube. Sticks like the proverbial to a blanket. Works on my M-Type with gloriously open gear train. Wish I could say the same about the headstock bearings!

Philip Rowe13/03/2021 16:43:48
229 forum posts
31 photos

Another thing I've just noticed is the screw thread indicator is not original nor the mandrel lubricators. The thread indicator could have been an accessory added later but in those days most alingment for thread cutting was done with chalk marks on the change gears. The lubricators look as if they are from a later lathe, I know my ML2 which was purchased new by my father in 1936/7 had brass flip top oilers and all the other lubrication points were just holes in the castings, although the holes were picked out with red paint!

Phil

Howard Lewis13/03/2021 17:27:22
6104 forum posts
14 photos

Well spotted George B! Thanks for pointingb out.

Old eyes not so good! So that makes it a very early machine.

Always was heavy handed with oil, hence concern.

Howard

David Caunt13/03/2021 20:13:17
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99 forum posts
38 photos

Like the overhead drive shaft.

Mind all that head of hair.

Just joking.

Dave

David Adair14/03/2021 11:58:12
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4 forum posts
5 photos

Hi

Cheers for the replies lads , all taken onboard.

Chuck is 5inch , no idea what it should be .totally agree about oilers somehow don’t look right, looking at some oilcups.Number on headstock is Y582.
Change gears fitted for feed are 20/55;20/60;20/65 . 4 new gears fitted as some where broken in transit also the bracket ( photo) welded up bracket .

Point taken about headstock bearing housing , shims are still fitted and there is no play in bearings .

All seems to working ok, given good tryout yesterday , feed is fine ,quite a bit of play in crosslide screw ,any ideas wink

David

David Adair14/03/2021 11:58:13
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4 forum posts
5 photos

Hi

Cheers for the replies lads , all taken onboard.

Chuck is 5inch , no idea what it should be .totally agree about oilers somehow don’t look right, looking at some oilcups.Number on headstock is Y582.
Change gears fitted for feed are 20/55;20/60;20/65 . 4 new gears fitted as some where broken in transit also the bracket ( photo) welded up bracket .

Point taken about headstock bearing housing , shims are still fitted and there is no play in bearings .

All seems to working ok, given good tryout yesterday , feed is fine ,quite a bit of play in crosslide screw ,any ideas wink

David

Edited By David Adair on 14/03/2021 11:58:34

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