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Bazyle03/03/2021 12:16:50
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5831 forum posts
216 photos

Is it just me?
Since last week I find that although various groups on groups.io open ok in Windows IE I can't reply or select a different group from the drop down (which doesn't drop). It all works fine in Edge or Chrome. Just wondering if it is part of the great IE switch off.

Martin Connelly03/03/2021 12:23:44
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1690 forum posts
181 photos

I think you have it right, IE is being actively rejected in a lot of cases.

Martin C

Circlip03/03/2021 13:29:19
1244 forum posts

When I click on IE I'm redirected to download Edge, have been for months. Another microsloth trap.

Regards Ian.

MC Black03/03/2021 14:10:47
155 forum posts

Lots of web-sites don't work on the version of Chrome installed in my computer. Others do NOT work in Firefox and lots don't work in Safari.

I see messages telling me that I "MUST" upgrade.

I feel that if organisations want me to look at their web-sites, they should design them to work on all computer systems -- not just the latest versions.

I can live quite happily without using that organisations web-site - especially since they often want something from me (like completion of a survey)!

I realise that there are security implications with some old software - but that is irrelevant unless one is attempting to make purchases, et hoc genus omne

MC Black

Michael Gilligan03/03/2021 14:24:23
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17641 forum posts
810 photos
Posted by MC Black on 03/03/2021 14:10:47:

[...]

I realise that there are security implications with some old software - but that is irrelevant unless one is attempting to make purchases, et hoc genus omne

MC Black

.

Do you know that to be true ?

Your assertion surprises me.

MichaelG.

MC Black03/03/2021 15:08:26
155 forum posts
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/03/2021 14:24:23:
Posted by MC Black on 03/03/2021 14:10:47:

[...]

I realise that there are security implications with some old software - but that is irrelevant unless one is attempting to make purchases, et hoc genus omne

MC Black

.

Do you know that to be true ?

Your assertion surprises me.

MichaelG.

When I have attempted purchases using Chrome, the payment failed to go through. When I queried this with the company, I was told that the old version had poor security so my payment details might be compromised.

That may NOT be true - but why should any company suggest that it is ?

MC

Frances IoM03/03/2021 15:49:24
1066 forum posts
27 photos
The drive to ever more secure https systems is driven by the wifi transmission needed for mobile phones and the rise of eBanking - Google pushed it from the start as some crafty cafe owners + small ISPs set up a mechanism to replace google adverts with their own adverts
The simpler precursors to today's highly securecrypto systems were once blocked as armaments by the USA.
For those of us ancients still on landlines such crypto are gross overkill but not for the great multitude who now have little access to physical banks etc
Michael Gilligan03/03/2021 15:59:07
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17641 forum posts
810 photos
Posted by MC Black on 03/03/2021 15:08:26:
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/03/2021 14:24:23:
Posted by MC Black on 03/03/2021 14:10:47:

[...]

I realise that there are security implications with some old software - but that is irrelevant unless one is attempting to make purchases, et hoc genus omne

MC Black

.

Do you know that to be true ?

Your assertion surprises me.

MichaelG.

When I have attempted purchases using Chrome, the payment failed to go through. When I queried this with the company, I was told that the old version had poor security so my payment details might be compromised.

That may NOT be true - but why should any company suggest that it is ?

MC

.

Sorry ... we are obviously at cross-purposes

I should perhaps have emboldened your words : ... that is irrelevant unless ...

Which is the assertion that I was concerned may not be valid

... I was thinking more widely; in terms of spammers hi-jacking your identity etc. etc.

Security is not only about payment details.

MichaelG.

SillyOldDuffer03/03/2021 17:18:28
Moderator
7027 forum posts
1549 photos

Best not to apply common sense to computer security issues because it's an exceptionally complicated subject, a specialism that many IT Professionals don't fully understand either!

Security depends on multiple interacting elements ranging from human naivety through to some of the most obscure and difficult to understand maths on the planet via implementation shortcomings and the Law of Unexpected Consequences. The war against security loop-holes rages continually.

Generally, you can assume that old software is much less secure than new software, not least because large numbers of security problems have been identified since older software was written. Unless happy to take the risk, software should be kept up to date unless the computer is never connected to the internet. Too many are happy to take the risk because they have no idea what the risks are.

There are many ways weak computers can be abused. A Cabinet Office Report published in 2011 estimated the cost of Cyber Crime in the UK to be about £27Bn. Businesses suffered most due to loss of Intellectual Property, Espionage and Online Theft, but private users were also exploited on a grand scale, roughly:

  1. Online fraud - £1.2Bb (Paying for goods that don't exist and account milking.)
  2. Scareware - £100M (Software that frightens victims into paying unnecessary removal fees.)
  3. Identity Theft - £1.8Bn (Extracting enough private information about individuals so they can be impersonated.  )
  4. Data Loss - £2.1Bn (Malicious software deletes data for fun.)
  5. Extortion - £2Bn (Software that locks and encrypts the computer so the owner cannot get anything in or out of it until he pays a fee to have it decrypted, which might never happen.)
  6. Fiscal Fraud - £2Bn (Bank and other account frauds)

Hacked computers are also used to send spam emails, and to host advertising, pornography and pirated software. This abuse is transparent until the owner investigates why his machine or network connection is unusually sluggish, or a policeman calls.

Of these I worry most about Identity Theft. All that's necessary is for my computer to leak enough personal information for someone else to establish themselves as me. Birthday, Mothers Maiden Name, Account Numbers, interests and memberships, doctor and medical details, and other trivia can be assembled into a convincing 'this chap must be Dave' portfolio. Playing back information to the victim is common to many confidence tricks, but more likely the impersonation is used to borrow money or buy goods in your name. Some unfortunates have had their houses sold whilst on holiday! Sorting out the resulting mess is massively inconvenient and some people have their identity used repeatedly for multiple frauds. Guess what happens to your financial credibility when someone successfully passes themselves as you! Especially if the police get the idea you are part of the fraud rather than a victim...

My advice, avoid lazy security and don't share personal information unnecessarily. Don't assume they won't notice little old you; the internet is scanned looking for the weaklings. If your machine admits to running Internet Explorer 5 on XP Whistler, hungry lions might home in on it because out of date computers suggest negligent or incompetent owners. Cyber crime is successfully hitting much tougher targets than Model Engineers: the US Department of Homeland Security and Microsoft were amongst the many victims of last year's Sunburst attack.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 03/03/2021 17:22:26

IanT03/03/2021 17:39:31
1816 forum posts
177 photos

I was not (and still am not) a software or security expert myself but I certainly worked with some of the best people working in this area at one time. Their advice was always very simple - keep your systems up to date (or stay away from the Internet).

Their logic was also fairly simple, in that it was much easier for those (with malintent) to exploit known problems - as documented in software updates - than look for them in new releases. So if you continue to use old (especially unsupported) software online - then you will be much more likely to suffer problems.

Their second bit of advice is hopefully much easier to observe - and it was to stay well away from anything online connected to porn or sex. They were of the view (at that time) that the porn "industry" had some of the best programmers/hackers around (who were apparently extremely well funded) and going anyway near many of these sites was not only morally dubious but potentially very dangerous to the pocket too. Of course this was a few years ago now and some other kind of villain may have risen up the threat list...

So - Mind how you go!

Regards,

IanT

John Baron03/03/2021 17:41:58
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445 forum posts
180 photos

I remember from the "Dial Up Modem" days, the scammers would quietly change your access phone number so that you dialled a premium rate number to access the net. I also recall quite a number of instances where a users machine was used to store the intruders files and other nefarious items. But ensuring security wasn't as big an issue as it is today. I know of one hack that can gain me access to a Windows machine ! No I'm not going to say how, other than it worked right from W98, and still works in W10.

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