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Is an internet connection essential to run Ardunio programs

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Greensands22/02/2021 20:17:47
173 forum posts
25 photos

Hi - I may be seriously off-topic with this one and if I am then my apologies but I have more faith in getting a quick and sensible answer from the users of this forum than perhaps from some of the other more relevant groups. My query is this. For a number of years I have maintained two PCs, one for indoor use connected to the internet running W10 and a much older unit for the the workshop running under XP.

Is it possible to develop Ardunio programs (or should I say sketches) on the W10 machine with access to the the internet and then sinply copy the 'compiled' or working sketch over to the XP machine with no internet access to run under workshop conditions. This is the system I have run for other workshop applications and I would like to be able to do the same for the Ardunio system.

Robert Atkinson 222/02/2021 20:47:05
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902 forum posts
17 photos

Yes,

You will have to have the software on the XP machine, but you can install that from a USB stick or CD-ROM.

Speedy Builder522/02/2021 20:47:31
2220 forum posts
167 photos

Yes, you can , follow this link Arduino binary files

I have never done this, but it looks possible

Edited By Speedy Builder5 on 22/02/2021 20:48:34

John Haine22/02/2021 21:16:57
3627 forum posts
195 photos

I have 2 clocks and my mill power feed all running from standalone Arduinos without internet connection. Also no need for internet for software development, though it can be useful.

SillyOldDuffer22/02/2021 21:57:55
Moderator
6857 forum posts
1538 photos

In principle yes, in practice I think it may be too irksome.

First problem is Windows-XP being out of support since 2008 and therefore well past its 'Best Before' date. It may be difficult to find a bootloader that will run on XP and talk to a modern Arduino. However, antique versions of the Arduino IDE are available or the avrdude bootloader here.

Of course, old versions of the IDE also come with old versions of the libraries, which might cause trouble too.  Or not!

Second problem is finding the compiled code. The Arduino IDE goes to considerable trouble to hide the awful complexities going on behind the scenes, but here we need to go backstage. On the w10 machine the build button creates a .hex file, which could be copied with a usb stick to the xp box and then flashed on to an Arduino as described in this example. The hex file is hidden in a temporary folder, but tick File->preferences->verbose, and where it is is listed at the end of the resulting chatter.

It may be easier to move the Arduino project to the W10 machine, upload the software in the house, and then return the Arduino to the workshop. Easy if the board was packaged so it can be demounted for updates, hard work if it's firmly fixed inside an equipment.

Another possibility is to run the IDE on a raspberrypi3, which is cheap enough to risk in a workshop, but setting it up with XP is also tricky.

Dave

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/02/2021 22:01:31

Greensands23/02/2021 15:59:44
173 forum posts
25 photos

Dave - I have sent you a PM

David Tocher23/02/2021 16:15:23
7 forum posts
1 photos

I installed Arduino IDE 1.8.12 on my laptop running XP about a year ago with no problems at all. I have just been informed that a later version is available for download - will I bother?

IanT23/02/2021 18:15:06
1800 forum posts
176 photos

I don't know what you need the Arduino for Greensands? You may have something in mind like GRBL or some other heavy duty code only available via the Arduino libraries. But if not, there are simpler embedded solutions available...

My Mites don't have (or need) an 'IDE' - because they can be programmed directly with the on-board Editor. You just connect your PC to them via a terminal emulator (such as TeraTerm) and a USB/Serial board. So programming & running them from XP really shouldn't be an issue.

You can also plug-in and (re)programme Mites in-situ, which can be very useful for de-bugging projects real time and again your Workshop PC will be fine for this.

Micromite Basic (MMB) will handle most things "out of the box" - features such as RS232, Servos, PWM, A2D, Analog, I2C, SPI, 1-Wire etc are all included within the base MMB language.

Original Micromite Features

Depends on what you want (or need) to do of course. There's been much discussion on the pros & cons of various languages, processors et-al recently - but very often 'simple' is also the easiest thing to do.

Of course, if you need more speed or features there are other hardware choices available to run MMB on, which will provide (for instance) USB connectivity, advanced graphic, LCD/Touch screen capability and on-board SD file storage - support for which is all built-in. Again you can interactively de-bug these systems just by plugging in your PC (remotely via any serial connection if required).

STM32 M4 Cortex system for Micromite Plus

Just a thought.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 23/02/2021 18:21:43

Greensands23/02/2021 20:32:05
173 forum posts
25 photos

Ian - I am basically playing around with my new toy, the Arduino NANO and a bunch of LEDs.

On a more practical note I do have a 3-axis stepper motor controlled milling machine which runs with a COMPUCUT controller and a suite of TurboBasic programs which of course are easy to write and can be written and compiled off-line without the need for internet access. Thids is a very reliable sytem and Ihave no intention to change it any time soon.

The object of buying the Arduino is to a) have fun and perhaps b) at a later date to consider a more practical application such as adapting my rotary table for CNC. My current issue (problem) is to find a way of running some simple Arduino sketches off-line as I do not have wi-fi connectivity in the workshop.

Perhaps as you suggest the Micromite system which is a new to me might be a more suitable alternate to the Arduino if programs can be written and uploaded without the need foe internet access.

IanT23/02/2021 21:43:59
1800 forum posts
176 photos
Posted by Greensands on 23/02/2021 20:32:05:

Ian - I am basically playing around with my new toy, the Arduino NANO and a bunch of LEDs.

On a more practical note I do have a 3-axis stepper motor controlled milling machine which runs with a COMPUCUT controller and a suite of TurboBasic programs which of course are easy to write and can be written and compiled off-line without the need for internet access. Thids is a very reliable sytem and Ihave no intention to change it any time soon.

The object of buying the Arduino is to a) have fun and perhaps b) at a later date to consider a more practical application such as adapting my rotary table for CNC. My current issue (problem) is to find a way of running some simple Arduino sketches off-line as I do not have wi-fi connectivity in the workshop.

Perhaps as you suggest the Micromite system which is a new to me might be a more suitable alternate to the Arduino if programs can be written and uploaded without the need foe internet access.

Well you don't need internet connectivity to use the Arduino (once you have the Arduino IDE loaded onto your PC) - although the advice seemed to be getting a bit complicated with possibly different A-IDE versions required for different versions of Windows.

You do need the IDE to compile your code - and whilst you could re-programme your Arduino (as SoD suggested) using the Win10 system and then take the Arduino down to your Workshop - that certainly wouldn't suit the way I normally develop embedded 'solutions' (which may be a bit too grand a description for what I actually get up to).

I don't know exactly how 'Professionals' do these things but I will write a little bit (and test it) often needing a few (sometimes many) iterations to get things really working the way I want - then I'll do another bit and then think about stringing it all together. Test, Amend and Test again - over and over till it works basically.

So the ability to do this quickly (interactively) is crucial to getting things up and running. I suggested Micromite because I know it will allow you to do this for most things (not everything) because it did for me. It won't matter which PC you use, because at it's most basic, MMB just needs a serial connection to make changes.

If your application is down in your Workshop - then that's where you will probably need to do most of your de-bugging too. But if you want to take the Mite back 'inside' (in the warm perhaps) - then you can do that too.

You may of course be able to do this with your Arduino Nano as well - but I imagine there may be subtle issues with trying to potentially use two different Arduino (compiler) versions, so I'd probably stick with just one PC.

Regards,

IanT

John Haine23/02/2021 22:21:57
3627 forum posts
195 photos

I have used the Arduino IDE on my Win10 laptop, previously on a Win7 laptop, which has now become a Ubuntu laptop, and an RPi 3, interchangeably. So 4 different platforms working on the same software. As far as I can see it just works.

John Haine24/02/2021 10:20:57
3627 forum posts
195 photos

Right, a partial answer. I also have an XP desktop in the workshop to run Mach 3, which is not connected to the Internet. I copied the latest Arduino IDE installer file (version 1.8.13, the latest I think) I had onto a USB stick, plugged it in and it installed fine, though I had to override several security warnings at the end because my version of XP is so old it couldn't recognise that the install was safe! That version of the IDE includes the "328P old bootloader" option needed for some clone Nanos (like I use!). The IDE then opened just fine.

However I couldn't get much further because when I plugged a Nano into the USB the computer wanted to download a USB2.0 driver (yes, it's that old!) and of course not being connected to the Internet it couldn't find one!

So...

  • XP looks like it will support the latest version of the IDE
  • So platforms from an old XP desktop through a Win7 laptop, Win 10 laptop, Ubuntu laptop, to an RPi, all seem to support the IDE. The only one I haven't (yet) programmed on is XP.
  • You need to ensure that you have the right USB drivers on your XP machine. This may be problemaatic since XP is so old!

I think you will find that the only problem you have not having an Internet connection to the XP machine is if you need to download new library components during debugging - which is rare in my experience. Best to do all the initial development and testing say in Win10. Save the sketch as a .ino on a stick and take it to the workshop, open it in the IDE and download to the target board (or just take the board you were using in the warm with you with it already loaded), for debugging.

Actually I used to have Internet in the workshop, and as the XP machine didn't have Wi-Fi I got a couple of Netgear powerline adapters from Maplins and used the mains wiring. Worked OK but actually I seldom used it and eventually decided that the risk of something on the Internet corrupting a Mach 3 run was too high.

Maurice Taylor24/02/2021 14:07:32
172 forum posts
30 photos

Hi ,regarding nano not working with XP machine ,the XP machine probably has a RS232 port, you could get a USB 2 to RS232 adapter from an ebay seller and try that.

Maurice

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