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So Much For CE Labels!

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Nigel Graham 224/01/2021 23:22:43
1081 forum posts
16 photos

I didn't expect too much for a tenner but the Wall-mounted L.E.D. Reading Lamps I found in A Certain German-owned supermarket looked ideal for the gloomy corner of the workshop, to illuminate both mill and jig-borer.

I was not prepared for what I found when I unpacked it yesterday to mount it on the shed's Stirling-board lining. Alerted by having been an internal PA Tester for my last employer, I refreshed my memory on the official signs and squiggles.

'

The lamp's label and manual bear the " CE " mark, the concentric-square symbol meaning " Double Insulated ", and " IP 2 " rating.

The CE doesn't mean much; but the squares are the IEC indicator that the item needs no earth as it is inherently insulated against a failure making external part "live".

IP Class 2 shows protection from ingress of dry objects, and the lamp would pass that when installed as intended.

'

I found -

Two-wire lead (appropriate for double-insulated equipment) from the wall-mounted switch-box, to a worryingly cheap-looking, transparent plastic 13A plug with a fully-plastic earth-pin. Possibly brittle material.

The switch-box's open back is not a problem as it is for screwing to a wall, but though the switch is behind a partition the whole assembly did not look double-insulated at all.

Switch-box, flexible neck and GU10 lamp shroud: all bare metal. Full continuity by test-meter "beeper" from end to end.

So although rather unlikely, a fault could render the outside of the fitting "live"...

I telephoned the company, agreed I would take the lamp back for a refund, and the office lady said she'd pass my complaint to the customer-services people. I commented that the manual says it was made in Germany, which surprised me as that is one country noted for Processes and Procedures and Standards!

Whether I will be contacted by the company remains to be seen...

duncan webster24/01/2021 23:30:17
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3070 forum posts
40 photos

You should have contacted trading standards. They seemed to take it seriously when I bought from a UK supplier a device which had a 3 pin plug with no fuse

clivel25/01/2021 02:14:07
311 forum posts
13 photos

There is very little difference in appearance between the European conformance CE mark and the "China Export" mark which seems to be a deliberate way to fool consumers.

Although the manual said made in Germany, did you notice whether the lamps themselves were so marked?

How To Distinguish A Real CE Mark From A Fake Chinese Export Mark

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 25/01/2021 02:15:10

herbert punter25/01/2021 08:34:36
126 forum posts
2 photos

I can’t believe that people continue to believe this myth!

Bert

Paul L25/01/2021 08:38:49
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57 forum posts
24 photos

I understood that CE stood for 'Check Everything'

Clive Brown 125/01/2021 09:24:40
614 forum posts
23 photos

Need some CE labels? Cheap as chips on Ebay. All styles.

Michael Gilligan25/01/2021 09:32:03
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17338 forum posts
787 photos
Posted by herbert punter on 25/01/2021 08:34:36:

I can’t believe that people continue to believe this myth!

Bert

.

Can you explain please, Bert ... What do you mean by “this myth” ?

MichaelG.

.

The EU is explicit regarding how the official CE mark is laid out: 

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/

... so other displays of those letters do not technically constitute the official mark.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/01/2021 09:38:44

Russell Eberhardt25/01/2021 09:51:45
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2625 forum posts
85 photos
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 24/01/2021 23:22:43:

The switch-box's open back is not a problem as it is for screwing to a wall, but though the switch is behind a partition the whole assembly did not look double-insulated at all.

Difficult to tell if it meets the standards just by looking. It requires double insulation or reinforced insulation with defined creepage and clearance distances and should withstand a 4 kV flash test. something like a metal shrouded lamp holder would need to be dissected to measure the distances.

Russell

herbert punter25/01/2021 09:56:28
126 forum posts
2 photos

Michael, the myth is the ‘China Export Mark’ it has no reason to exist!

A non-conforming CE mark is simply that.

Bert

John Haine25/01/2021 10:05:17
3667 forum posts
206 photos

Why so coy about naming the retailer? It's either Aldi or Lidl, much better to name them so we know what to avoid.

Nigel Graham 225/01/2021 10:14:40
1081 forum posts
16 photos

Clive - The lamp itself is not marked.

Russel - The switch is secured to the back of the metal case, but other than by dismantling, which might destroy the unit, it's not possible to assess what is immediately around it. The mains lead enters the switch-box and does look well anchored, then the two PVC-insulated conductors loop separately round to enter the switch via a plastic over-moulded connection.

It is not possible, again without dismantling, the type of wiring inside the flexible metal conduit that goes to the lamp head, nor what shrouding there may be within that. The conduit might have a plastic lining but that is invisible.

The luminaire itself is a GU10 l.e.d.

The 13A plug looks odd. It is transparent, but that alone doesn't mean it is any more fragile than any other plastic used for plugs.

Essentially I am not confident that the lamp meets the standards it claims, and although a breakdown is not very likely, I am not confident it would fail in a safe state.

Martin W25/01/2021 10:22:26
866 forum posts
29 photos

It's not unusual to find 'fully plastic' earth pins on double insulated products as their only purpose is to open the gate on UK style 13A sockets and clear plastic on 13A plugs have been around for quite some time though they are not my style.

Martin

Michael Gilligan25/01/2021 10:23:32
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17338 forum posts
787 photos
Posted by herbert punter on 25/01/2021 09:56:28:

Michael, the myth is the ‘China Export Mark’ it has no reason to exist!

A non-conforming CE mark is simply that.

Bert

.

True ... but : If you are using another mark, which might potentially be construed as passing off, it is useful to to have an explanation up-your-sleeve in case the matter goes to court.

MichaelG.

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Bedtime reading: https://hallellis.co.uk/passing-off-claims/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/01/2021 10:26:24

Roderick Jenkins25/01/2021 10:24:01
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2049 forum posts
547 photos

You can all stop worrying about the CE mark. It has been replaced by the UKCA mark. Transition period of one year. It will be interesting as to when we see the first one, if the exporters can be bothered with accreditation for the small UK market.

Stay well,

Rod

Michael Gilligan25/01/2021 10:34:36
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17338 forum posts
787 photos

dont know

I hope the graphic designer wasn’t paid too much for ‘being inspired by’ the infamous FCUK tee-shirt.

**LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking

MichaelG.

.

http://retailingresearch.blogspot.com/2017/03/what-fcuk-happened.html

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/01/2021 10:36:48

SillyOldDuffer25/01/2021 10:36:01
Moderator
6878 forum posts
1539 photos

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 24/01/2021 23:22:43:

... I commented that the manual says it was made in Germany, which surprised me as that is one country noted for Processes and Procedures and Standards!

...

Believing a trade mark, brand-name, quality mark, or country of origin guarantees anything is a mistake in my opinion.

Even assuming that everything made in Germany is to a uniformly high standard, which it isn't, printing 'Made in Germany' in the manual proves nothing.

If a nice man in a pub car park offers to sell you a new Rolex watch for £50, is it OK if the posh velvet lined box is convincingly plastered with their trade-mark, a serial number, CE and Kite marks and 'Made in Switzerland'?

The right to use the Debenham's name has just been bought by the online fashion company BooHoo. Good luck to BooHoo, but their business is very different to that of a long established upmarket High Street Department Store. The original Skoda firm was a world class manufacturer. Under communism they became a byword for cheap nasty cars. Today, they're a quality company again. Everything changes. As my Granny said 'Never judge a book by it's cover.'

Guarantees are provided by the seller, not by the packaging, or where it was made. If it's no good, send it back.

Dave

Russell Eberhardt25/01/2021 10:44:21
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2625 forum posts
85 photos
Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 25/01/2021 10:24:01:

You can all stop worrying about the CE mark. It has been replaced by the UKCA mark. Transition period of one year. It will be interesting as to when we see the first one, if the exporters can be bothered with accreditation for the small UK market.

Stay well,

Rod

This is just so much unnecessary bureaucracy. Any manufacturer worth his salt will want his products capable of being sold in as many markets as possible so will use both marks. Nearly all BSI standards are based on EU standards anyway so why not keep them the same?

Russell

martin haysom25/01/2021 10:55:38
14 forum posts

i got one of these lights on one of my grinders. had trouble shorting the original clear lead so changed it to 3 core.

Even assuming that everything made in Germany is to a uniformly high standard,

German propaganda dating back to 1930s

Howard Lewis25/01/2021 11:23:02
4455 forum posts
8 photos

Being a sceptic can extend your life span. Don't believe all that you are told, examine and analyse.

A colleague once said of another "He is an excellent engineer. He has told me so many times"

But he wan't the one sent out to fix difficult problems!

Howard

Frances IoM25/01/2021 11:25:54
1006 forum posts
27 photos
empty but original rolex boxes (+ other empty packaging of hi value consumer products) sold for considerable money at the local auction house - their intended subsequent use was obvious to all.

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