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The demise of UK fossil fuel Power Stations

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Stuw25/01/2022 13:46:15
11 forum posts

When Maggie put stockpiles on all the power stations she cared not a hoot for efficiency, the trucks and other forms of transport used to transport the coal, which is a valued addition to the efficiency data was included in the correct figures of 22 % maximum, that’s why data proves that these stations were 22% efficient, she wanted shut of them at any cost, the true figures were indeed 30 to 40 % efficient, but, that was not politically acceptable, she stepped up her hatchet job and dismantled the industry, the books were cooked to prove that the coal fired power station was a dinosaur to speed up the dash for gas,

Mark Rand25/01/2022 13:48:36
1236 forum posts
28 photos
Posted by JohnF on 25/01/2022 11:25:34:

I agree with Dave it is crass stupidity to demolish these power stations -- take them out of service and mothball them is a far better solution until we see what the future holds. We do need to and indeed must clean up our act, stop ravaging our planet of the finite resources and polluting our environment, remember the old kings quote " the world is not ours to do with as we wish we must account to those who come after " or something close !

John

Sorry, Both remaining the GB coal fired power stations (not counting the wood fired Drax) are more than 50 years old and even with retro-fits and upcrades are still getting a bit long in the tooth. The only newer one in the UK is Kilroot, which is only 40 years old.

Now we've shut the mines, inland coal fired power stations aren't as simple as they used to be.

SillyOldDuffer25/01/2022 14:02:21
Moderator
8469 forum posts
1885 photos
Posted by Samsaranda on 25/01/2022 10:20:47:

...

I realise that we have to plan for reducing our carbon output but I think keeping our people warm and our economy functioning takes precedence as far as I am concerned. Let’s get over any impending military action then refocus on Climate Change, ...

Or is impending military action just another excuse for not tackling much more serious problems?

I'm afraid humanity has run out of time already. We face a double whammy. Climate change is already causing moderate trouble and we are fully on course for climate catastrophe. Equally nasty, energy prices are going to rise through the roof because god isn't making any more fossil fuels. Our lives depend completely on cheap energy derived mainly from fossil fuels, especially oil.

Serious trouble ahead unless something is done.

Are we part of the problem? With every passing year I become more reluctant to accept change. Truth is I'd rather the whole world went to pot than I had to learn a new trick: I want to live in the past. But it's a selfish emotional reaction, not based on reality. Surely I should be more worried about food shortages and billions of people on the move than late magazines and smart meters?

Unfortunately old certainties are crumbling under our feet. It was always thus, but his time it's serious: time to stop dithering and get on with making the necessary adjustments. Let's be brave - engineers fix things.

Dave

Journeyman25/01/2022 14:14:20
avatar
1146 forum posts
230 photos

doomed.jpg

Vic25/01/2022 14:49:54
3060 forum posts
8 photos

Dave Halford25/01/2022 15:12:45
2004 forum posts
23 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/01/2021 15:57:21:
Posted by not done it yet on 21/01/2021 14:26:35:

[…]

useless, as are suggestions that it is simply more than about 23 degrees north of the equator.

.

You are really on form, aren’t you !

I answered your specific question accurately, then included two riders by way of trying to help.

MichaelG.

secret

You are both wrong, anyone from London knows that the North starts just past Hatfield.

Stuw25/01/2022 15:25:53
11 forum posts

For information, when I went to Drax on a day visit, the biomass fuel was monkey nut shells shipped to site from Georgia America, they were stored in vessels outside the boilerhouse, ground to powder in the mills and blown into the boiler through the normal system. The six 500 mw sets must use a ship load every day.

Macolm25/01/2022 17:37:02
avatar
75 forum posts
14 photos

Driving out coal and nuclear generation in the UK and most of Europe has been very successful, and there is also a presumption against further gas fired generation. The monumental failure of governments has been to put in place any practicable replacement.

A parable. You quite like lettuce, and your wife is crazy about them. To have fresh lettuce every day, you plant twenty rows of twenty, a total of um er, is it 400? Enough for a newly picked lettuce every day of the year, and some spare. What could possibly spoil such a brilliant plan?

Unfortunately, this appears very close to the thinking behind our electricity system, where the average output of renewables is assumed as always available, and without practicable provision for the prolonged periods of low wind that occur.

As a comparison, consider the Crossrail project. If it opens this year, it will have been 14 years from initiation. At the start, all the technologies were available and well proven, all that was needed was detailed planning and execution. A similar timescale is proposed for the electricity grid to become CO2 emission free, but in contrast, the key storage or backup technologies are currently not proven as practicable, or are even unidentified. Over last summer there were more than 10 weeks consistently low wind generation. To cope with such a situation would require an impractical amount of storage for current technologies.

Finally, from https://www2.bmreports.com , here is current UK grid data and prices. Yesterday, the balancing cost reached £4 per kwh. Today only 53p!

electricity250122.jpg

Samsaranda25/01/2022 19:06:33
avatar
1396 forum posts
5 photos

Hopper’s posting about the abundance of gas produced by Australia and it being exported by ship is perhaps of little relevance to us on this side of the world at the moment because the majority of Australian gas is sold into the Asian market, with China being by far the biggest customer. Australia still produces huge amounts of coal, I remember 12 years ago when I was in Oz for my daughters wedding, seeing coal trains shuttling into Newcastle, fully loaded with coal for export, these trains were well over a kilometre long and hauled by three or four massive locomotives, and were discharged into gigantic bulk carriers on its way to China. Australia is a huge exporter of energy producing coal and gas, comments in this posting referred to the fact that we have no active coal mines left in the UK, if we had the need for it we could always import coal, I am sure Australia would only be too glad of extra business, the distance shouldn’t be a problem we bring oil from halfway round the world, we are after all part of a global market, of course a source of coal much nearer is Poland who produce substantial amounts. SOD seems to think that I am advocating abandoning our efforts towards Climate Change mitigation by perhaps using redundant coal powered generating stations, far from it I was only in favour of suspending it if and when war conditions prevailed and we had to resort to other means to keep the lights on and survive industrially. Dave W

Tony Pratt 125/01/2022 19:20:51
1926 forum posts
12 photos

Seems utter folly/criminal to shut down power generation facilities without a reliable replacement? Only my simplistic ill informed opinion, I'm sure our politicians know what they are doing, not!

Tony

Nicholas Farr25/01/2022 19:28:39
avatar
3310 forum posts
1524 photos
Posted by Dave Halford on 25/01/2022 15:12:45:
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/01/2021 15:57:21:
Posted by not done it yet on 21/01/2021 14:26:35:

[…]

useless, as are suggestions that it is simply more than about 23 degrees north of the equator.

.

You are really on form, aren’t you !

I answered your specific question accurately, then included two riders by way of trying to help.

MichaelG.

secret

You are both wrong, anyone from London knows that the North starts just past Hatfield.

Hi, well when I were a lad, my dad said if I was standing at the north pole, there is only one direction you can go. I was a bit puzzled about that and he then told me that which ever you looked, it would be in a southerly direction, so you can only go south, so I guess, if you are at the south pole, everywhere else is north. smiley

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 25/01/2022 19:43:54

Ady127/01/2022 20:20:12
avatar
5065 forum posts
734 photos

Funny how I've never ever heard of the Nordstream 2 until today

...which is going to double the amount of global warming gas imported to "Green" Germany, home of  "The Greens"

Funny that

innit

**LINK**

It's not about what they tell us, it's really about the bits they don't tell us

Edited By Ady1 on 27/01/2022 20:22:03

J Hancock27/01/2022 20:41:38
832 forum posts

Nordstream 2 doesn't really change the amount of gas Germany needs ADY. It just bypasses the Ukraine

to get there.

Vlad wants his people controlling the valves , not having gas 'go missing' en route.

SillyOldDuffer27/01/2022 21:19:32
Moderator
8469 forum posts
1885 photos
Posted by Ady1 on 27/01/2022 20:20:12:

Funny how I've never ever heard of the Nordstream 2 until today

...which is going to double the amount of global warming gas imported to "Green" Germany, home of "The Greens"

Funny that

innit

**LINK**

It's not about what they tell us, it's really about the bits they don't tell us

Edited By Ady1 on 27/01/2022 20:22:03

You'll have to explain the joke Ady. Aren't German Greens still dead against Nordstream2?

I'm confused,

Dave

duncan webster27/01/2022 21:42:15
3919 forum posts
61 photos

Germany still has 30 coal fired power stations, and is still bringing them online RWE

German brown coal is filthy stuff, far worse than our stuff They did have nuclear, but shut them down early in a fit of greenyness.

Perhaps German greens should invest in a mirror before they say anything about us

DiodeDick27/01/2022 22:38:55
32 forum posts
9 photos

Germany took fright at nuclear power after the reactor fire at Chernobyl in April 1896 and reverted to burning brown coal, sometimes known as lignite, which is indeed dirtier than our "black" coal.

Meanwhile, Western countries, including the UK, embarked on a Technical Assistance programme (Tassis), under the aegis of the International Atomic Energy Authority, sending scientists and engineers into former Soviet bloc countries to advise how to keep their reactors safe, principally because we did not want them burning lignite.

Germany's aversion to nuclear power did not prevent them from trying to muscle in to Tassis to sell their kit at Kozluduy in Bulgaria, which had Russian designed and built VVER reactors.

Dick

DMB27/01/2022 23:42:56
1293 forum posts
1 photos

Come hell or high water, why worry about it? Let the MPs do the worrying, have sleepless nights after bringing too much of their own booze to the party! They dare not let the lights go out - they know that would stuff their chances at the next voting session.

DMB27/01/2022 23:42:57
1293 forum posts
1 photos

.

Edited By DMB on 27/01/2022 23:44:20

10ba12ba28/01/2022 00:39:37
44 forum posts
19 photos

RWE: if my memory still works, were they not the last owners of Tilbury PS? A coal burner, they applied to HMG to convert it to biomass, got turned down, so shut it sehr schnell.

I worked in Germany on a number of their coal burning stations. The brown coal came onto site in rail tankers with a couple of bar nitrogen cap, it was quite combustible !

H.

10ba12ba28/01/2022 01:53:22
44 forum posts
19 photos

Above para 1 should read: "they applied to HMG for a grant to convert it to biomass"

H.

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