By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

New Member - Looking to Upgrade from SX2P

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Andrew W14/01/2021 19:11:36
10 forum posts

Hello all,

I keep ending up back at the forum as part of my lengthy googling sessions, so I figured it was about time that I actually introduced myself and asked for some help from the collective wisdom of the membership.

My situation is this. I bought an SX2P from ARC almost exactly a year ago. I have really enjoyed learning with it, but I think the time has come for a step up in both capacity and grunt. I don't need anything too massive as I don't really have the space (nor in reality, the budget) so I'm probably still sticking to the realms of the benchtop models. For reference, my lathe is a 4 1/2" Boxford Model A and that has never been found wanting for capacity. I've mainly been producing a variety of model components and a few vehicle parts as required.

I would prefer to stay with the R8 spindle and I like the flexibility and ease afforded by variable speed control rather than playing around with belts and pulleys - the Boxford affords me that pleasure in spades until I eventually succumb to the temptation of a VFD. It also means that I'm well versed in the pros/cons of Chinese-sourced machines vs old English iron.

My online research keeps coming back to Warco's WM16B / WM18B or ARC's SX2.7 / SX3. I have had good experiences with both companies in the past.

With the Warcos, the 18 is the only one with the R8 and is a significantly heftier machine, probably at the limit of what I can accommodate.

With the Siegs, although the SX3 is a more substantial machine, I really like the idea of the tapered gibs and the slightly more "modern" approach of the smaller SX2.7.

I feel like I am heading towards the SX2.7, however my hesitation is that I may find myself in a similar situation in 12 months time, looking to trade up to the bigger machines. If this is the case perhaps the WM18B might be the better option - although I might have to hire an engine crane to move it!

Any pointers or advice you are able to give would be most appreciated. Have I perhaps overlooked an option that might tick all the boxes?

Thanks!

Brian H15/01/2021 10:52:36
avatar
2038 forum posts
111 photos

Hello Andrew and welcome.

I'm afraid that I won't be of much use in your deliberating process but I too have a Boxford, in my case an AUD. I also have an ancient mill/drill with DRO and a Senior ELT horizontal mill with DRO.

I had a look at the spec for the 2 machines you mention and, personally, I thought that the SX3 was the better machine because of the lack of a swivelling head, they are a bit of a nightmare to tram whereas the SX3 is fixed and so no problem or danger of it moving.

Please let us know what you decide and why.

Brian

JasonB15/01/2021 10:52:45
avatar
Moderator
19961 forum posts
2178 photos
1 articles

In the case of the Sieg machines then if you can afford it go for the SX3. I've had a couple of members ask me the same in recent months and that is what I have suggested to them as it is a more marked step up in the the grunt and capacity stakes.

I've had a X3 which has a lot of the same parts since 2007 and not found the traditional gibs on X & Y to be an issue, maybe give then a tweak every couple of years and forget. The Z axis has a tapered gib anyway. What makes more difference is the fact the dovetails are further apart and longer than on the SX2.7 so the table is better supported. The column has a larger base and is a far more substantial casting both of which make it a lot more rigid than the 2.7. I also prefer the front handle to raise the head.

SX3 also has quite a bit more room between spindle and table , I have found the 2.7 wanting in that respect at times plus the table area is a lot greater as it is wider than the quite narrow one on the 2.7.

Andrew W15/01/2021 11:28:08
10 forum posts

Thanks both, that's really insightful.

From the ARC website, I believe the SX3 has a tilting head, the same as the WM18B, its Warco "equivalent". The latter appears to have a bigger table and more travel though, as well as a more powerful motor.

Much to choose between them or is it a case of too close to call and down to preferred colour?

not done it yet15/01/2021 12:51:51
5626 forum posts
20 photos

Do check those motor powers. Arc definitely quote power produced by the motor, but I think a lot of other suppliers only provide the power required by the motor - a lot of which may be lost as heat, so the output power is much lower - possibly (or even probably?) lower than the Arc machine(s).

JasonB15/01/2021 13:01:38
avatar
Moderator
19961 forum posts
2178 photos
1 articles

Yes, head tilts on the SX3.

As NDIY hints do check to see if the figures are input power or output, ARC are output. but as well as power you need to consider torque, the Brushless motor on the SX3 has more torque and can run as a direct belt drive from motor to spindle so is quiet and you don't have to change speed ranges. The brushed motor on the Warco does not have so much torque at low revs so there is a gearbox in the head that gives high and low range.

Andrew W15/01/2021 13:28:53
10 forum posts

Excellent points regarding power quotes, thank you.

Jason, my understanding was that the WM18B was the brushless/belt variant of the WM18, therefore a bit more of a side-by-side comparison with the SX3 was feasible. I may have got myself a bit confused somewhere along the line though!

Clive Brown 115/01/2021 15:06:15
613 forum posts
23 photos

The WM18B motor is brushless. I have a WM16B, also brushless and I've never noticed any shortage of torque.

The WM18B wasn't on the market when I bought. Apart from being more substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

Otherwise I'm pleased, the 3MT suited me as I already had some tooling, it isn't too bad since it is self ejecting, so no need for a hammer.

I only rarely swap tooling with my Boxford however.

Harry Wilkes15/01/2021 15:14:04
avatar
1054 forum posts
64 photos

Welcome to forum

H

Andrew W15/01/2021 17:01:54
10 forum posts
Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 15/01/2021 15:06:15:

The WM18B motor is brushless. I have a WM16B, also brushless and I've never noticed any shortage of torque.

The WM18B wasn't on the market when I bought. Apart from being more substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

Otherwise I'm pleased, the 3MT suited me as I already had some tooling, it isn't too bad since it is self ejecting, so no need for a hammer.

I only rarely swap tooling with my Boxford however.

Again, many thanks.

The WM18B in R8 certainly looks to be a contender. Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

Ady115/01/2021 17:13:58
avatar
4233 forum posts
593 photos

substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

My family braincell immediately said "Useful Modding Opportunity!"

JasonB15/01/2021 17:21:45
avatar
Moderator
19961 forum posts
2178 photos
1 articles

Sorry missed that you were looking at the "B" and not just the WM18. But you will have to swap between two pulley ratios unlike the SX3 that just has one belt position.

Andrew W15/01/2021 17:27:37
10 forum posts
Posted by JasonB on 15/01/2021 17:21:45:

Sorry missed that you were looking at the "B" and not just the WM18. But you will have to swap between two pulley ratios unlike the SX3 that just has one belt position.

Again, an excellent point, thank you.

It also has the Z axis handwheel up high rather than the SX3's at the base.

Decisions, decisions...

Andrew W15/01/2021 17:39:18
10 forum posts

Have just looked at a video of the WM18B and belt change appears to be a bit of a faff involving loosening the motor mount with a socket spanner and re-tensioning once the belt is in the new position. Suppose I probably wouldn’t need to be doing it that often but it’s not the most elegant of arrangements. Makes the boxford’s lever arrangement look quite simple by comparison!

It’s the price to be paid for the speed range available I guess.

Bill Phinn15/01/2021 17:43:36
448 forum posts
77 photos
Posted by Andrew Wakeling on 15/01/2021 17:01:54:

Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

Do bear in mind that Warco have been out of stock of WM16s and WM18s for a considerable time.

The situation with their lathes is even worse.

Andrew W15/01/2021 17:46:38
10 forum posts
Posted by Bill Phinn on 15/01/2021 17:43:36:
Posted by Andrew Wakeling on 15/01/2021 17:01:54:

Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

Do bear in mind that Warco have been out of stock of WM16s and WM18s for a considerable time.

The situation with their lathes is even worse.

The message I had from them suggested restock in March, but given the current climate I suspect we shall see how that pans out.

Andrew W15/01/2021 17:49:00
10 forum posts
Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 15/01/2021 17:44:41:

Just out of interest what is an SX2P ?

It's one of these:

Link

It's essentially an SX2 built to ARC's specification.

A very capable bit of kit for its size. I've been very happy with it.

Stuart Smith 515/01/2021 19:35:37
174 forum posts
26 photos

Re Warco stock.

I am intending to buy a new Warco lathe and have been in email contact with Warco, waiting for the lathe to be back in stock. I was told they were expected to be back in stock in November. When I asked again mid-November for an update, they had just received the delivery but they had already all been sold.

When I spoke to them by phone, I realised that I should have ‘back ordered’ the lathe which I have now done. The next batch is expected late January or early February so hopefully I will be able to get one then.

If you decide on the Warco and want your mill in March, I would suggest ordering now!

Stuart

Andrew W15/01/2021 21:46:34
10 forum posts
Posted by Stuart Smith 5 on 15/01/2021 19:35:37:

Re Warco stock.

I am intending to buy a new Warco lathe and have been in email contact with Warco, waiting for the lathe to be back in stock. I was told they were expected to be back in stock in November. When I asked again mid-November for an update, they had just received the delivery but they had already all been sold.

When I spoke to them by phone, I realised that I should have ‘back ordered’ the lathe which I have now done. The next batch is expected late January or early February so hopefully I will be able to get one then.

If you decide on the Warco and want your mill in March, I would suggest ordering now!

Stuart

Thanks for the heads up Stuart!

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
JD Metals
emcomachinetools
ChesterUK
Eccentric July 5 2018
cowells
Warco
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest