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Hopper16/01/2021 11:15:52
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5151 forum posts
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Yes. I think the govt stats could be out by 50 per cent in any given direction and this thing would still be a calamity when viewed objectively from the hospital wards.

Alan Jackson16/01/2021 11:28:47
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"As Michael says, Raphael, my heart is with you too and all of your colleagues that face this virus and potential exhaustion in dealing with it on a daily basis." Good true words.

Alan

Howard Lewis16/01/2021 11:59:24
4413 forum posts
4 photos

On one hand we have Raphael and his many colleagues, doing whatever they can to support and heal the sick.

On the other hand we have the politicians who are feeding bus information

No prizes for guessing which group I support!

Having worked in purchasing, (High volume, high value, items ) I have my views on the apparent efficiency of the NHS purchasing organisation, but am not going to publicise them here..

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 16/01/2021 12:00:11

vic francis16/01/2021 20:30:45
57 forum posts
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Posted by jimmy b on 16/01/2021 07:28:22:

It would appear that some people really do think they know everything.....

As NDIY says, stay in your shed.....

Jim

Hi Jim, I certainly dont know everything but looking at the poor nurse on tv yesterday I could see the fit of her band mask was poor ; very sad to see...the gaps either side of her nose would be drawing in unfiltered air... the band concertina type mask is one of the poorest ones i have looked and tried. The cup type ones are much better but require careful fitting;I feel the disposable screw on filters would have been the way to go; the rubber mask could be easily sterilised or wiped after use. Model Engineers are practical folk...and observers of detail; so Jim I do not say I know everything; but a friend of ours died from Covid on Tuesday, drove the Black Hawthorne No3 040 st; At Kettering Furnaces, so whatever your point of view, be very careful and yes stay in the shed.

Steviegtr16/01/2021 20:36:46
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1908 forum posts
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Strangely i was in the shed today when i got the call. I am booked in for Thursday at Tadcaster surgery. 1st jab. I have not left the house for weeks. Critically at risk. Take care all. Things should start to ease in the weeks or months to come.

Steve.

br16/01/2021 21:01:22
457 forum posts
3 photos

Good news for you Steve and fingers crossed for the easing as you say.

br

PS  Wife was well impressed with your flowers.

Edited By br on 16/01/2021 21:15:52

Steviegtr16/01/2021 21:17:08
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1908 forum posts
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Posted by br on 16/01/2021 21:01:22:

Good news for you Steve and fingers crossed for the easing as you say.

br

PS Wife was well impressed with your flowers.

Edited By br on 16/01/2021 21:15:52

yes. Steve.

Bill Phinn16/01/2021 21:39:13
443 forum posts
77 photos

On the subject of the vaccination, I'm not sure how many people are aware that an important part of the NHS' information concerning making an online booking for your vaccination appointments is actually incorrect, namely this bit:

"you have to wait for your invitation letter or a call from your GP before you can book your vaccination appointments"

If you are currently eligible you do not need to wait for the letter or a call from your GP; you can just go straight online and book. At least you could a few days ago, when I told my astonished GP that this was the case. Essentially there is no new information in the letter the possession of which is a prerequisite for making your booking. You just have to be eligible.

 

Edited By Bill Phinn on 16/01/2021 21:40:13

Ian P16/01/2021 22:09:22
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Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 16/01/2021 21:59:50:

There is no way in the world some one is going to inject me with a chemical in the vague hope it will protect me from a virus . This is my opinion please don’t have a go at me if you don’t respect MY decision! Thanks

Tony

I fully respect your decision and I would not try and persuade you to change it and certainly would not have a go at you. My only question is, what facts or information do you base your decision on?

Ian P

SillyOldDuffer16/01/2021 22:16:21
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Posted by vic francis on 16/01/2021 20:30:45:
Posted by jimmy b on 16/01/2021 07:28:22:...

... looking at the poor nurse on tv yesterday I could see the fit of her band mask was poor ; very sad to see...the gaps either side of her nose would be drawing in unfiltered air...

A misunderstanding of what the masks do I think. Their purpose is to catch the globules sprayed about when people cough and sneeze, not to stop the virus itself. Breathing in a scattered shower of individual viruses is much less dangerous than taking in the hundreds of thousands plus carried in a droplet. It's the difference between being stung by a single wasp and being attacked by a swarm.

The masks don't have to be completely sealed because largish droplets can't go round corners. A plastic face-shield open at the bottom also works fairly well.

Masks protect others better than the wearer. If you have covid , but aren't aware yet, the mask catches most of the droplets you would otherwise blast on to bystanders. If everyone wears a mask big high payload droplets have a hard time getting through.

Masks are far from perfect, but like keeping 2 metres apart, or hiding behind a perspex screen they reduce the chance of catching the disease and - with luck - it's seriousness if you do. Best of all - stay at home!

Dave

Ady116/01/2021 23:04:59
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4224 forum posts
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I reckon that a lot of people will "wait and see" for six months or so before taking the jab themselves

Steviegtr17/01/2021 01:45:16
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1908 forum posts
252 photos

I can understand a lot of folk not trusting the NHS jab. I had one such friend. Sadly he died last week. Of Covid 19. A lot of mixed race seem to think it has animal bits in it & others have there own defence, one being Ginger & honey. Never mind. I remember my mum not trusting the jabs we had as kids. That was 60 years ago. . I did have the jab. Apart from my head pointing backwards i seem ok. Take care folks. A few friends also will not have the Flu jab each year. The rest inc me have been having it for over 6 years now.

Steve.

Hopper17/01/2021 02:01:04
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5151 forum posts
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Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 16/01/2021 21:59:50:

There is no way in the world some one is going to inject me with a chemical in the vague hope it will protect me from a virus . This is my opinion please don’t have a go at me if you don’t respect MY decision! Thanks

Tony

No, sorry. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to spread unfounded misinformation on social media that may influence others to make bad decisions.

It is time right-minded people started calling these internet conspiracy theories and the like out for what they are: unfounded misinformation with no basis in reality. The end result of them all too often is the likes of what we saw in Washington DC last week.

It needs to stop.

Why is your posted opinion dangerous misinformation? Because "inject me with a chemical in the vague hope it will protect me from a virus" has no basis in reality. The vaccines have been rapidly developed, yes. But they have a scientifically tested efficacy of 90 to 95 per cent, varying slightly between brands. Nothing vague about it at all. Relying on rigorous scientific method and data, not "vague hope".

Yes testing has been expedited. Partly because of the huge amount of money thrown at it and partly because of the deadly necessity of stemming Covid-19. And the science shows that any added risk due to that is dwarfed by the massive risk of millions more deaths if Covid is allowed to continue as is. So you have to balance a very small risk with vaccine against a very large and rapidly growing risk without vaccine.

So, no I won't respect your unfounded opinion that you dangerously posit on social media where it can contribute to more people delaying or refusing the vaccine that will make us all as safe as possible in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

So I call your opinion out for what it is: unfounded misinformation that has no place on social media.

Steviegtr17/01/2021 02:20:57
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1908 forum posts
252 photos
Posted by Hopper on 17/01/2021 02:01:04:
Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 16/01/2021 21:59:50:

There is no way in the world some one is going to inject me with a chemical in the vague hope it will protect me from a virus . This is my opinion please don’t have a go at me if you don’t respect MY decision! Thanks

Tony

 

No, sorry. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to spread unfounded misinformation on social media that may influence others to make bad decisions.

It is time right-minded people started calling these internet conspiracy theories and the like out for what they are: unfounded misinformation with no basis in reality. The end result of them all too often is the likes of what we saw in Washington DC last week.

It needs to stop.

Why is your posted opinion dangerous misinformation? Because "inject me with a chemical in the vague hope it will protect me from a virus" has no basis in reality. The vaccines have been rapidly developed, yes. But they have a scientifically tested efficacy of 90 to 95 per cent, varying slightly between brands. Nothing vague about it at all. Relying on rigorous scientific method and data, not "vague hope".

Yes testing has been expedited. Partly because of the huge amount of money thrown at it and partly because of the deadly necessity of stemming Covid-19. And the science shows that any added risk due to that is dwarfed by the massive risk of millions more deaths if Covid is allowed to continue as is. So you have to balance a very small risk with vaccine against a very large and rapidly growing risk without vaccine.

So, no I won't respect your unfounded opinion that you dangerously posit on social media where it can contribute to more people delaying or refusing the vaccine that will make us all as safe as possible in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

 

So I call your opinion out for what it is: unfounded misinformation that has no place on social media.

OOh nice one Hopper.10 points. Actually 11 cos you have a Myford.

steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 17/01/2021 02:22:49

Danny M2Z17/01/2021 05:11:52
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936 forum posts
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There are some places in Australia that refuse entry to people who cannot prove that they have been vaccinated.

Eg; Some child care centres deny admission to children whom are not immunised against measles and some aged care facilities deny access to people whom do not have a current influenza vaccination.

I would not be surprised if that in the future, such facilities might require a Covid-19 vaccination certificate.

IMHO people who refuse to be vaccinated (with a proven vaccine) are being quite selfish in putting tthe rest of the community at risk due to their intransigence.

* danny *

pgk pgk17/01/2021 06:04:49
2059 forum posts
290 photos

<<So I call your opinion out for what it is: unfounded misinformation that has no place on social media. >>

The publishing of fake news, disinformation and downright rubbish on social media (or indeed any media) is a PITA but I cannot support moves to block it because that inherently becomes censorship and censorship itself becomes a way of manipulation too - that whole nonsense of 'influencers' twisting pubic opinion is just as suspect as government propaganda. Sadly average Joe is not too good at independant thought and has a short memory.

You have to remember that gov and WHO initially told people not to wear facemasks because it would give them a false sense of security and if everyone just washed their hands that was the best way to protect themselves. It was always a disease that could be spread by aerosol and caught not just by physical touching but by inhalation. I'm all for cleanliness and hygeine but ventilation, dilution and filtration should have been promoted way earlier.

I invested in a decent FFP3 mask as soon as this disease was 'announced' and do my shopping looking like Darth Vader - indeed I may carry on doing that in future flu seasons. Back when i was working and meeting the public in numbers my immune system was always being topped up by challenge and I never got ill - retirement, ageing and rural life probably make me more susceptible to other people's germs.

Hopefully the concept of sanitisers being used before entering shops will be extended permenantly too.

The only problem with the need to rush a vaccine is the obvious one of long term efficacy. If some of the statements that actually having the disease may only confer 5 mths protection from getting it again are true (as opposed to selling newspapers) then the vaccine may not be quite the magic bullet we hope for. It's not going to stop me lining up for my shot since it still helps dilute the problem. Devolved nations wanting to show how important and different they can do things means that here in Wales I'll be lucky if the over 70's rural tranche get offered a shot by March.

pgk

Raphael Golez17/01/2021 07:12:53
143 forum posts
132 photos

I will add my own experience treating and working in COVID-19 environment day in and day out.

Vaccines (as there are several out) : In the UK we use Pfizer (admin please delete if inappropriate and I'm not endorsing anything) is used by the NHS. This is a mRNA vaccine. I don't want to bore people here but you can find out yourself how it works and information is abundant in the web. I have been vaccinated (got a mild fever and body aches - took paracetamol - AVOID NSAID) and all is well. I am scheduled to have second booster dose by the 21st of January but delayed until 8th of March due to the government policy to get more people immunise their first dose. Im cool with this. To recall when this first happened about a year ago I was hit by severe symptoms of fever, cough and extreme fatigue after taking care of patient with C-19. Advised was to self isolate for 14 days and weather it down unless I become unwell that I need to go to A&E for evaluation. At that point no testing was advise (test for C-19 result takes to long around that time at around 4-5 days) I recovered after following full government guidelines and isolating for 20 days. My feet is itching to go back to work and carry on the fight against this virus. I was officially cleared by occupational health to go back to work then first lockdown started. Since then I have been expose to low level COVID-19 (non aerosolise area and not in ITU where ventilation required). Technically speaking I'm training my immune system to cope with the pathogen. I requested to have my antibodies check but here we are a year later and still no response to the paper work I submitted for antibodies testing (not to worried about that now). I have thankfully been ok. My main concern is my family (wife and daughter) so I have maintained distance from them since March last year by separating myself in another room, wear mask in the house and using FaceTime to talk to them. Yes we do have a glimpse at each other but I maintained distance. Im very sad and missed them despite us staying in one roof! No hugs and kisses for me. When I got home from work I fully isolate, take work scrubs off and put on a sealed laundry bag ready for a two and a half heated water cycle wash. I immediately had a hot shower for 30 minutes after which I was allowed to go in my room. Im thankful that my wife looks after my food and I have to eat in my room for almost a year now. Thats my routine to protect them from me as I work in a high risk environment.

For the mask: We have different guidelines over 1 year as the pandemic got worse. Around Feb to March, we do not use any mask in the corridors of the hospital but only in red areas (ICU, read A&E and respiratory ward) as per national guidelines. This was dramatically change as we tried to adopt to the situation where in we have to wear surgical mask when we enter the ward around April 2020. As you know different mask have different levels of protection. During this time nobody really fully understood how it spread (Medically speaking : incubation period, droplets or aerosolation, distance, variants, etc.) We then have to be fit tested for a higher level of mask protection and this involve a rigorous process to see what mask fit your face for a certain particle size and if you fail the test then your only recommendation is a full head respiratory suit incase you work in a red area. Moving on around May 2021 and we are advise to wear full surgical mask as we enter hospital premise and you wear that the whole time you are in the hospital then we change to FFP3 plus visor on red zone with out aerosolising procedure. All aerosolising procedures we do is only done in a designated ward and ITU/HDU and nowhere else (this includes NIV and intubation, CPR is also an aerosolising procedure and is treated with full precaution). Surgical mask will have the minimum protection but it also limits the spread so it does what it suppose to do. Lastly, I'm also afraid and scared (i would be lying if I tell you Im not) but I have a job to do and proud to play my part in this pandemic. I have full respect for this virus and I take things very seriously. Any advise from the government and the scientific community are all worth it and as I mentioned before we are learning along the way, we are fire fighting this pandemic and hoping that this will be over soon. Its up to everyone to do your  part and contribute positively to our situation. I respect people's opinions and sometime I just shake my head if I think its different to mine but thats how it is. I just don't want people to get sick because of a different opinion and trust me once you have it and in a difficult situation skeptics will become believers.

Stay safe everyone,

Raphael

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:16:15

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:17:44

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:21:41

Mike Poole17/01/2021 07:23:44
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I think the astonishing speed with which the vaccine has been produced is a demonstration of how quickly things can be done when money is no object and the will exists to cut through all the normal obstacles. I don’t believe corners have been cut just the process streamlined as much as possible. I wonder if the vaccine doubters will be willing to join the back of the queue for a hospital ICU bed if they get the virus?

Mike

Raphael Golez17/01/2021 07:36:20
143 forum posts
132 photos
Posted by Mike Poole on 17/01/2021 07:23:44:

I think the astonishing speed with which the vaccine has been produced is a demonstration of how quickly things can be done when money is no object and the will exists to cut through all the normal obstacles. I don’t believe corners have been cut just the process streamlined as much as possible. I wonder if the vaccine doubters will be willing to join the back of the queue for a hospital ICU bed if they get the virus?

Mike

Im sure fundings poured into the research and development is no joke. Mike, thats if we got vacancies. Its not a queue that you wait and it keeps on going. Its a queue where in if beds are occupied (which they are) patient can stay there for weeks on end. Now if they can wait for weeks then maybe the queue will move on.

Raphael

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:37:31

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:40:05

Edited By Raphael Golez on 17/01/2021 07:40:46

Ady117/01/2021 07:56:21
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4224 forum posts
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Posted by Danny M2Z on 17/01/2021 05:11:52:

There are some places in Australia that refuse entry to people who cannot prove that they have been vaccinated.

Eg; Some child care centres deny admission to children whom are not immunised against measles and some aged care facilities deny access to people whom do not have a current influenza vaccination.

I would not be surprised if that in the future, such facilities might require a Covid-19 vaccination certificate.

IMHO people who refuse to be vaccinated (with a proven vaccine) are being quite selfish in putting tthe rest of the community at risk due to their intransigence.

* danny *

It's that old chestnut of the needs of the many versus their freedom to choose

Governments are going to have to choose between german style forced mass injection programs versus US style constitutional freedoms of the individual to choose

As the human race multiplies government policy is put firmly into the spotlight

Always intruiging to watch people take sides

"People who forcibly inject us are selfish"

"People who refuse to be injected are selfish"

Edited By Ady1 on 17/01/2021 08:12:34

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