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1/2'' scale drawing sources

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Brainsparks3010/01/2021 18:55:50
17 forum posts
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I got inspired by some videos I found on 1/2'' scale models, built by Victor Shattock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMoE6UQPFfE
Is there a source of drawings for 1/2'' scale?
Has there ever been any castings to buy?

JasonB10/01/2021 19:01:56
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I think the americans tend to talk about their locos in terms of scale, same sort of size as our 2.5" gauge which you should be able to find designs for such as GLR

Edited By JasonB on 10/01/2021 19:03:32

RRMBK10/01/2021 20:26:25
151 forum posts
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Hi Brainspark. You dont say if you are US or Europe/UK based. Have a look at the website n25ga.org.uk Or put in National 2 1/2 gauge Association where there is a good selection of drawings for UK and American outline locos along with castings for many of them,

you may also find the Gauge 3 society at www.gauge3.org.uk of interest although this tends to be more for completed locos.

hope this helps

IanT10/01/2021 21:10:48
1918 forum posts
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Victor Shattock was born in Devon, emigrating to Calgary before relocating his family to California.

His American standard gauge (spirit-fired) steam engines were scratch built at 1/2" scale to run on 2.5" gauge track (e.g. same as pre-War Gauge 3) and his railroad was set-up indoors in the basement. The details are given here - and there are links to some old black & white movies on YouTube that are very interesting.

Victor Shattock - Gauge 3 in the USA

Brainspark - As far as I'm aware, there are no modern drawings (or castings) for US style G3 engines available at the moment. LBSC did produce some US 'style' designs for 2.5" in the early 1930's - some details can be found in the N2.5GA "Overseas designs" but they may not really suit your needs. See: N2.5GA Designs

However, in G3 it is quite possible to fabricate the parts rather than use castings but the designs may be more of a problem. I don't know what is available in the US apart from Kozo Hiraoka's engines (the Pennsy A3 might be a good start and could be scaled down).

Regards,

IanT

IanT10/01/2021 21:23:09
1918 forum posts
185 photos

P.S. I should have mentioned that whilst there is quite a lot of old 1/2" scale stock still around here in UK (and being run) the scale for 2.5" gauge started to change to 17/32" between the wars and that is the norm these days (or 13.5mm in metric - a scale ratio of 1:22.6 if using CAD).

Regards,

IanT

Bazyle10/01/2021 21:35:41
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My understanding is that the main following of 1/2" scale in the USA is for narrow gauge prototypes running on G1 track. There is or was a magazine something like 'Garden Rail' that specialised in it.

br10/01/2021 21:39:14
697 forum posts
3 photos

IanT

Thanks for your post - fascinating stuff

br

IanT11/01/2021 11:20:52
1918 forum posts
185 photos
Posted by Bazyle on 10/01/2021 21:35:41:

My understanding is that the main following of 1/2" scale in the USA is for narrow gauge prototypes running on G1 track. There is or was a magazine something like 'Garden Rail' that specialised in it.

Gauge & Scale is a somewhat complicated area in the US (even more so than over here).

Many N/G railroads in the US were 3ft gauge, so when running on 45mm track, the correct scale is 1:20.3 also described as Fn3 by companies such as Accucraft. But there are (were) companies producing 1:24 (e.g. 1/2" ) scale products but the connection between scale and gauge was/is often very loose. In the US "G-Scale" and "G-Gauge" tend to get used to mean different things, the only commonality being the 45mm gauge.

In Europe, "G-Scale" generally means a scale of 1:22.5 on 45mm track - which is what LGB used to model their metre-gauge N/G railways. In Germany, the Spur II standards all use a scale of 1:22.5 but on four different gauges to represent Standard gauge ( Spur II - 64mm), Metre gauge (Spur IIm - 45mm ) and "Feldbahn" on 32mm and smaller gauges. Perhaps strangely, there was a small German manufacturer of US-prototype engines and stock called Magnus but I'm not sure if they were Gauge '3' or Spur II - the two being nearly the same but not identical (63.5mm vs 64mm track gauge and 1:22.6 vs 1:22.5 scale).

Regards,

IanT

IanT11/01/2021 12:08:47
1918 forum posts
185 photos
Posted by RRMBK on 10/01/2021 20:26:25:

You may also find the Gauge 3 society at www.gauge3.org.uk of interest although this tends to be more for completed locos.

hope this helps

When I joined the Gauge '3' Society, there were no RTR engines and very few wagon kits. It was a 'scratch builders' scale and very much based on large live steam engines (often LBSC designs) - so you either built your own engine, purchased second-user or commissioned one (and waited two-three years for delivery).

These days we have a very wide range of ready to run engines in both live steam and battery electric, kits to build the same (Barrett Live Steam Models J65 is now available in G3) but 'scratch-building' is still very much a part of our Members activities. Many of these members are also members of the N2.5GA - and run their locomotives in 'Driver Hauling' mode at their Rallies as well as at Society GTGs.

But quite apart from G3 Live Steam engines there are also some very nice models being built from a more traditional Railway Modeller perspective. G3 is very good when modelling early Victorian Railways for instance, because they were quite small locomotives and lend themselves to detailing, which G3 enables. But we do seem to be attracting some very good 'scale' modellers from the smaller gauges too. Good examples of both can be found on Western Thunder - but I like this GWR Saddle Tank as an example of the fine work folk are doing in G3 these days.

GWR Saddle Tank in G3

For myself, I own a 'vintage' coal-fired G3 GNR Atlantic (so I guess that counts as RTR) but everything else has been (or hopefully will) scratch built. Whether I will ever finish my main 'G3' project ('Hyperion' - LNER 3-cylinder A3 Pacific) remains to be seen - I do some work, re-do it, go away (and do something else) and then come back again. So whilst I'm not the best model engineer in the Society (or the most productive one by a long chalk) I'm afraid - scratch building both live steam and other models in Gauge 3 is still very much alive and well.

Although you could also just buy a Kingscale 'Britannia' instead I guess!

Regards,

IanT

Dave Wootton11/01/2021 19:01:47
208 forum posts
51 photos

Hi Brainsparks

As IanT states 1/2" to the foot scale was phased out in the 20's ish in the UK, but in the USA because of the larger prototypes 1/2" scale was stilln used untill the scale faded out in preference to the larger scales.

I don't believe there are any suppliers of 1/2" scale US outline drawings or castings available, a few years ago a company in the US was advertising castings and drawings for the Timken four aces loco in 2 1/2" gauge, I did try to contact them at the time but no response.

Drawings are available for the Baltimore & Ohio "President Washington" class P7 pacific from the 2 1/2" association, but no castings. These have not been available for many years, I have been told since the early thirties, I have the unfinished chassis of one I am working on at the moment. The design uses a great number of castings, even the coupling and connecting rods are nickel silver castings, one of the association members has recently completed a fully fabricated example.

On ebay a few years ago copies of 1/2" scale drawings for a NYC Hudson designed by Millar were being sold from the US, taken from the original 1930's drawings, unfortunately by the time I found out they were available the listings had disappeared.

My own loco pictured below ( I hope!) has passed through several hands by the look of it and needs considerable rectification work, it has the original cast gunmetal main frames, and many of the original cast parts, I hope to have it as a rolling chassis soon.

If you are interested in this sort of thing I can recommend the Friends models site, he is remanufacturing the 3 1/2" gauge President Washington castings, there's quite a lot on the US scene in the 30's. Worth joining the association, friendly, helpful bunch.

Dave

Dave

President washington

Dave Wootton11/01/2021 19:14:01
208 forum posts
51 photos

Ian T

Thanks for the links in your post fascinating stuff, I'd heard of Mr Shattock but wasn't aware of his great achievements, must have been quite a guy.

love the bit about the authorities invstigating possible insurrection and discovering a model railway!

Dave

Michael Pershinsky16/01/2021 15:52:40
2 forum posts

Hello from the usa,

This was just discussed in a recent post here

**LINK**

in the Live Steam forum under "1/2" scale drawings"

chaski.org/homemachinist

Dave Wootton17/01/2021 09:30:27
208 forum posts
51 photos

Hello Michael

Thank you for posting the link, very interesting, I look forward to investigating the other links on the Chaski forum.

Pleased to see the NYC Hudson picture, I did not realise there where other designs for a Hudson apart from the Miller design, and pleasantly surprised that there is someone producing castings for 2 1/2" gauge. I find the history of the hobby very interesting, comes of having a huge pile of 1930's Model Engineer magazines available to read at school, been on a downward spiral ever since!

Thanks Again

Dave

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