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Peter G. Shaw07/01/2021 16:47:37
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1244 forum posts
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A long long time ago I bought an Anglepoise lamp. In those balmy days it used an incandescent bulb, 40W it might have been. And in the fullness of time, it became obvious that an increased light output would be desirable. So I tried a 60W incandescent. Brighter ir was, but it started smelling due to excess heat. and in due course I had to rewire the lamp and change the lampholder.

And so, I moved onto a CFL. The only problem was that it was too heavy for the springs and although I tried to see if stronger springs were available, I eventually had to accept the gradual, or not so gradual, sinking of the head.

Recently I got fed up with this so went back to the 60W incandescent. Hello smells. Goodbye droop. But then I discovered that the lampholder was loose on its fixings so a further dismantling & repair work was required.

And just on spec, with no hope of finding anything, I typed into my browser "How to use andglepoise lamps with CFC bulbs". Yes, I know I got it wrong, but I ended up on a support page for Anglepoise and there was a table describing which bulbs were ok for Anglepoise lamps, along with their current availability status. And much to my delight, the recommended bulbs are either LED golfball or LED filament types, both of a 5 to 6 W power rating.

As it happens, about 15 months ago I had to re-arrange the lighting in our front room and ended up with golfball 5.5W LED bulbs in the wall lights. A quick "borrow" and yes, a good light and no droop. Into the stores and there was a 9W LED bulb. And an even better light and no droop. So problem solved. And ageing eyes relieved.

A few comments about CFL & LED lamps.

Our first CFL was a Phillips 20W which 20+ years later is still working satisfactorily. Since then we have found that Osram are satisfactory, whilst CFL's bearing such names as Megaman or similar are rubbish.

In respect of LED's, because our dining room is poorly lit, we have tried CFL's & 16W LED's, all of which have had a very short life, with the LED's starting to flash after a few weeks, this despite having a 5 year warranty. These LED's were made by either Ring or Bell. Not very good. In contrast, we now have 15W LED's by Crompton and to date they are proving satisfactory.

Here's hoping this may be of interest to someone!

Peter G. Shaw

roy entwistle07/01/2021 19:50:42
1321 forum posts

I find that if LEDs are fitted with the cap at the top, they last longer than if fitted with the cap pointing down

Roy

Peter G. Shaw07/01/2021 21:19:12
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1244 forum posts
44 photos

Don't know about life, but that's how they are.

Peter

Oven Man07/01/2021 21:44:31
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106 forum posts
8 photos
Posted by roy entwistle on 07/01/2021 19:50:42:

I find that if LEDs are fitted with the cap at the top, they last longer than if fitted with the cap pointing down

Roy

It was certainly true of filament light bulbs that they lasted longer with the cap at the top. The reasoning was that when facing upwards the filament got shorted out by touching two wires of each support arm.

Heat seems to be the killer for LEDs, but logic would say the cap at the bottom where the "electronics" are located would be the best way. Have you seen how simple they are inside these days - one rectifier, one electrolytic capacitor, one IC, one resistor and a load of LED chips. (but they still don't seem to last long).

+ 1 for LED filament bulbs in Anglepoise lamps. They really look the part.

Peter

Peter G. Shaw08/01/2021 09:46:15
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1244 forum posts
44 photos

Hello Oven Man/Peter,

I've wondered about heat, indeed when we got this three-legged thing, before we started down the CFL/LED trail, they did indeed have the incandescent bulbs pointing upwards inside a shade with no means of allowing air to circulate. With the change to CFL's, and the thought that heat may be doing them in, I turned the holders through 180 degrees, still with the shades on but no difference. When we went over to LED's, we didn't bother doing anything, just left things as they were, after all, even at 16W the LED's are still lower power than the CFL's. Still though with shades and no facility for a through flow of air. Once the LED's started failing, I removed the shades but still had failures until we bought the Crompton's mentioned above.

So, at the moment, we have this three legged light fitting with no shades on it and the lamps pointing down. And so far, no problems. So, is it heat? Or is that Cromptons are a better made product? I'll let you know in 12 months time, if a) I'm still here, and b) if I can remember.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Oven Man08/01/2021 10:26:45
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106 forum posts
8 photos

Hello Peter

I am beginning to think it is a quality problem. After getting through a signifcant number of cheap supermarket lamps I bought a set of Philips lamps. I wasn't expecting great life from them as they also appeared to run very hot. However they seem to be lasting very well, they are used in our rather dark lounge so are on for quite long periods every day. These lamps face up with the cap at the bottom. Like you, I have experimented with improved ventilation/cooling but not noticed any increase in life. It's is something I picked up from my father that I tend to write dates on things to see how long they last.

I hope I have not just put the kiss of death on them.

Peter

HOWARDT08/01/2021 10:38:10
676 forum posts
25 photos

I have LED in all rooms but hall which has D fluorescent. LEDs from various sources and in all types screw, bayonet, G9, G10 etc never had a problem with any of them. Just before Christmas had a trip to IKEA and got rid of the last CFL in an Angelpoise lamp and fitted one of their LED. I think we have around twenty four bulbs in fixed fittings most of them for around fifteen years only replacements have been in the lounge and that is only once.

Peter G. Shaw08/01/2021 11:05:29
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1244 forum posts
44 photos

I do tend to think of it as a quality thing - poor electronics that can't cope with heat. When all said and done, heat is to be expected so the lamps should be able to cope with it without the user having to remove shades. This is why I particularly mentioned the makes I have found satisfactory - Phillips, Osram & Crompton.

In respect of heat, I have noticed that some devices, eg the Anglepoise mentioned initially, and various table lamps, do actually have spaces or gaps where the hot air can escape, whereas two room fittings, did not.

I must admit to being somewhat surprised at Ring or Bell (I actually can't remember which of these, or maybe it's both) being unreliable. When all said and done, both Ring and Bell have been around for a long time, but then, that's life is it not, we can only go by our experiences, and now I give those two makes, along with Mega-whatever a wide birth - I just can't do these days with continually having to change lamps and then take them back under warranty. (Except for the fact that the shop that sold me the 16W lamps has now closed permanently, - nothing to do with Covid 19, by the way.)

Peter G. Shaw

p.s. There are too many Peter's around here! Hence my use of my full(ish) name.

p.p.s. Unfortunately, I've also found that Peter Shaw is even more common, so have to include the middle initial!

David George 108/01/2021 11:20:26
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1479 forum posts
463 photos

On repairing original work lamps, they had a brass bulb holder with ceramic contact insulator insides. No problem with them overheating and smelling and there is an earth connector on the holder as well. I bought them from local electrical supplier.

David

peak408/01/2021 13:40:45
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1354 forum posts
151 photos

Regarding flashing/flickering LEDs, are the folks suffering from the problem using dimmer switches?

Some LED 240v domestic lamps are marketed as dimmable and others not; but also older wall dimmer switches may not be compatible with LED lamp driver circuits.

I'll deliberately link to An Older Article here as many people retrofitting LEDs to existing applications will be using older wall dimmers.

My own wall dimmers do work after a fashion, but can induce flash/flicker, depending on the load and setting.
They work for the time being, but I'll eventually replace them with newer dimmers using the correct modern technology.

My reasoning was/is that as LED lighting becomes more popular, demand for the correct dimmers will increase and the price will fall. This has been bourn out in practice, as when I first started pricing them, LED dimmers were about £45 per unit; now one can easily find a double dimmer for less than £20

Bill

Michael Gilligan08/01/2021 14:03:07
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17286 forum posts
778 photos

On the heat issue : It is important to note that the light output from an LED is cool [here referring to actual temperature not ‘colour temperature’] and the generated heat comes out of the back. .... This is the inverse of a typical GLS incandescent bulb, and fittings need to be designed with that in mind.

MichaelG.

Grindstone Cowboy08/01/2021 14:14:40
488 forum posts
44 photos

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I have LED bulbs in every room (gradually replaced incandescents as they went) and the only two failures so far have been Phillips.

Very good point from Michael G. by the way yes

Rob

Peter G. Shaw08/01/2021 14:19:06
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1244 forum posts
44 photos

Bill,

For me, can't speak for others, we do not have any dimmers.

David,

I don't remember with what the Anglepoise was originally fitted.

As it happens, within the last 12 months I have scrapped a 5 arm fitting which did indeed have brass bulb holders with an earthing terminal/screw. This particular fitting has been rewired 3 times during its 45-50 year old lifespan, the last time being only a few years ago. At that time, I specifically asked for heat resistant flex from the electrical shop - this was because the previous flex had disintegrated under the effects of the heat. Whatever I was given wasn't suitable for the task as when I dismantled the fitting, I discovered that the outer sleeve was "wet" with a liquid. Not only that, but one or two of the cord clamp screws had corroded into the brass shell such that they were irremovable.

Peter G. Shaw

Dave Smith 1408/01/2021 14:28:28
153 forum posts
25 photos

I just use the standard LED lights from B and Q, we get the occasional failure but some in the lounge have been in place at least 3 to 4 years now and they get a lot of use. My 1970's angle poise has always had a 60W bulb in with no problems with smell or overheating.

Dave

duncan webster08/01/2021 21:46:10
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3035 forum posts
36 photos

I bought a batch of 4W Filament Candle LED bulbs from Toolstation, those put in a three leg fitting with the connector at the bottom have a short life, so I'm now using them in pendant ceiling fittings with the connector at the top where they seem to last a lot longer.

I also use 10W GLS in pendant ceiling fittings, the failures have all been in the circuit board. I have a feeling that drilling holes to let some air into the enclosed electronics would help, but with my luck I'd drill into something vital

Edited By duncan webster on 08/01/2021 21:47:05

Oven Man08/01/2021 22:09:52
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106 forum posts
8 photos

I don't know how tolerant LED bulbs are to high voltage. Our house is quite close to the local substation and we regularly see voltages approaching 250 volts. After previous discussions on this forum, I changed some of the light switches to see if that would improve lamp life. The jury is still out on that one.

Peter *

From Peter G Shaw:

p.s. There are too many Peter's around here! Hence my use of my full(ish) name.

p.p.s. Unfortunately, I've also found that Peter Shaw is even more common, so have to include the middle initial!

* My surname is Beardshaw

Oven Man13/01/2021 11:30:28
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106 forum posts
8 photos

Here is an interesting video from BigClive.com looking at high efficiency LED lamps. Looks like we might be getting ripped off a bit.

**LINK**

High efficiency long life bulbs are available, but not to everybody, yet!

Peter

Neil Wyatt13/01/2021 12:33:41
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Moderator
18490 forum posts
720 photos
78 articles

I followed the same journey and now have a mighty 15W LED bulb in my Anglepoise (which, incidentally, has a MAX 60W sticker inside the shade).

Neil

Peter G. Shaw13/01/2021 14:12:01
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1244 forum posts
44 photos

Thanks for that Neil. I wonder if passage of time has dulled the memory and mine did indeed have a 60W max sticker. Oh, well, I'll never know. What I do know is that both the lampholder and the connecting flexible wire have been changed at some point in the dark & distant past. Now I do know that some of these "plastic" lampholders do start to smell if used on their maximum power rating, and also, that the insulation in the flexible cable do tend to become brittle and crack/fail when exposed to too much heat. So what did I do? And when? $64,000 question, and there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then. Also, although I have been trying to use CFL's in it, I really have no idea for how long.

Anyway, all's well that ends well. I was just overjoyed to have found a resolution to the problem of over-heavy lamps.

Peter G. Shaw

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