|Stuart Cox 3||28/12/2020 12:21:09|
|107 forum posts|
I have just been offered a used Walco GH610 lathe including extras, QCTP, 4 jaw chuck, face plate, steadies, drill chuck and some tools, all in good condition for £1250.
Just wondered what your general thoughts were? Does that seem a reasonable price?
I have only just bought a used Clarke CL500M which I am very happy with, but I am considering spending £300 on a Variable speed motor package upgrade. So thinking before I do this should I consider buying the Walco instead and selling on the Clarke.
|Stuart Cox 3||28/12/2020 12:26:40|
|107 forum posts|
|61 forum posts|
Looks a good deal but just be careful, that lathe has ‘sold’ twice on eBay in the last couple of months. Photo has been cropped but definitely the same photo, bisley drawers alongside and metal strip on floor.
|302 forum posts|
Yes, I would say it is worth £1250. From what can be seen in the photo it looks quite good, so if with a closer look it has no signs of wear, damage or abuse and doesn't make any nasty noises and everything is working correctly then it is certainly worth it.
Warco have been selling that design of Chinese lathe for donkeys years, I remember when they called it the Warco 1224 and originally cost £2000 new many years ago. Their current version is the GH1230 at around £4000 with a DRO and coolant pump I think.
Although the centre height is the same as your Clarke lathe at 6 inches, the GH610 is in a different league with properly proportioned castings to suit its capacity, full screwcutting gearbox, power feeds and a geared headstock with a camlock spindle fitting.
With a lathe like the GH610 for home use you may never feel the need to upgrade again.
You say you have been offered this lathe, does that mean it is close enough for you to go and take a look and have a good fiddle with it? Which I think would be essential before buying.
Edited By Lathejack on 28/12/2020 13:19:44
Edited By Lathejack on 28/12/2020 13:21:35
|not done it yet||28/12/2020 13:16:13|
|5776 forum posts|
Dunno about this particular lathe but far easier to get on with compared to the machinemart lathe.🙂
The GH600 lathe on the WARCO site may be a close relative. Selling at 2 1/4 grand at present?
Best for you to compare the two machines + the condition of the offered lathe and decide.
Nor do I know if this machine was over-priced at auction or not. **LINK**
You will be the buyer. Check things out on the internet, for yourself, is my advice.
|302 forum posts|
The Warco GH600 is a different machine altogether, it is the Warco GH1230 which is their current version of this long running design, with the same 9 speed headstock, tailstock, gearbox and similar but longer bed casting as the GH610, but with just a slightly different apron and thread dial indicator.
Edited By Lathejack on 28/12/2020 13:31:55
Edited By Lathejack on 28/12/2020 13:36:19
7026 forum posts
My advice is to stop fretting about equipment and prices until you know what you need. Cut lots of metal and then decide.
On paper, and assuming I had space for it, given a straight choice between the Clarke and the Warco, I'd incline to the Gear Head Warco. But both lathes will do much the same work; it's just that the GH has extra controls that speed up setting changes. They're essential when working piece-rates in a Victorian sweat-shop, but speed advantages are less important to most hobbyists. What's your lathe for? Are you an occasional tinkerer, or do you intend churning out components as fast as humanly possible? Are you the kind of worker who is frustrated by tools that take time to re-set between operations? If the latter, the GH is better choice (assuming it's in good condition.)
You mention just having bought a Clarke CL500M which you are very happy with but go on to say a variable speed motor is under consideration. Is that because the CL500M has been found deficient, or because variable speed is generally known to be a 'good thing'? I ask because trying to fix problems before you have them is a bad habit. (Don't ask how I know!) I don't think the GH610 is variable speed either, so buying one won't fix that particular problem. Beware! Buying better machine tools is a hobby in itself. The man who has a mini-lathe discovers Myford Super 7s and lusts after a Connoisseur. Then he finds even better lathes are available, perhaps a Boxford. Having saved up for a nice Colchester, he discovers tool-room lathes, before a well-wisher tells him about Dean Smith & Grace. As all these are inferior to a modern CNC machine centre costing half a million he faces a lifetime of misery.
Personally, I enjoy getting the best out of what I have. I'm happy provided I can make what I want to in my workshop. I change tools only when they don't do what I need. My approach isn't for everyone!
Making things reveals what's good and bad about tools like nothing else.
|Howard Lewis||28/12/2020 13:40:05|
|4662 forum posts|
In my view, the GH610 is a far better machine than the CL500M.
This example looks to be in good condition, and possibly has not done a lot of work.
It has hardened bedways, provides power feed for both sliding and surfacing, with a separate, protected Leadscrew, and probably more options of feed rates and pitches (15 plus the same again using back gear and changewheels? ) than the old CL500M. It will probably weigh more, so be a more rigid machine.
You are being offered it at little more than half the price of a new GH600, which does not have the QCTP.
Warco have sold the GH600 from their USED lists, so we have no idea of what the price was.
(You may well need to purchase additional tool holders, so need to know the details of the particular QCTP on the machine )
In the same circumstances, I would probably got for it. But it is your money!
|Dave Halford||28/12/2020 15:04:32|
|1388 forum posts|
I thought even a Boxford was too big for your space.
From Durham in October to Peterhead yesterday to where ever it is now and £80 dearer.
The advert lower case words are not true since it left Durham.
|Stuart Cox 3||28/12/2020 15:10:41|
|107 forum posts|
Thanks everyone for your comments. So it seems providing the Warco is in good condition and a genuine offer, then its worth the price being offered.
Thanks for your advice Dave, I'm not so much fretting about the equipment as much as weighing up where best to spend my money. The Clarkes slowest speed is 200rpm which I'm being told is a bit quick for thread cutting. Thread cutting is definitely something I want to do on the lathe, so the reason I am looking at a posdible VFD conversion in the future, is in order to be able to slow the rpm down to a more manageable speed. So I am weighing up whether to spend £300 on VFD or sell on the Clarke and add the £300 to buy the Warco.
That said, you are right in the respect that I need to make things to find out what I want. I should really try thread cutting on the Clarke first to see how I find it before I make any decisions.
|Stuart Cox 3||28/12/2020 15:18:06|
|107 forum posts|
Yes you are correct Dave, I had noticed that it was sold back in October for £2149 from a seller in Durham and now being sold from a seller in Aberdeen for £1250, both saying they had it from new and showing exactly the same pictures/description. I do find it suspicious and am currently checking out the seller. He is supposed to be calling me this afternoon so I will be scrutinising the listing/offer and will be very cautious before accepting any offer.
|Howard Lewis||28/12/2020 15:25:04|
|4662 forum posts|
Being over cautious, I would not cut threads at 200 rpm, with Taps, Dies or single point tools. Too little time to react!
Less than a third of a second per revolution of the chuck, sounds like a recipe for running the tool into the shoulder, unless it is through hole.
This is a manual lathe, not a cam controlled Cridan E!
With a VFD giving 90 rpm, i use the "jog" function, sometimes in Back Gear, or a Mandrel Handle, so that I have greater control of speed and distance.
If the Warco GH 610 is good, it will be more useful machine than the CL500M, although it lacks the ability to mill. Although may still be better with a sturdy Vertical Slide added (Have only flycut or co ordinate drilled with one on my belt driven fore runner. of the GH610 )
|Stuart Smith 5||28/12/2020 16:11:15|
|181 forum posts|
There was a previous post from someone having suspicions about a seller on eBay. I can’t find it now , but since then I have noticed a few lathes (Harrison M250 or 300 for instance) for sale with the same details and photos, showing sold then for sale again a few days later by a different seller in a different part of the uk . Mostly northern Scotland but also other parts of UK. It seems dodgy to me but I can’t see what the scam could be. This Warco lathe matches that pattern.
|Stuart Cox 3||28/12/2020 16:35:45|
|107 forum posts|
Mmm....that's interesting! So the Warco lathe mentioned is being offered to me on a second chance offer via eBay. I put a half hearted bid in not expecting to win and got out bid as expected. Then 2 days later I got the second chance offer. The seller hasn't called me as arranged to discuss, so I'm going to give it a miss, there is definitely something not right about it all!!
|larry phelan 1||28/12/2020 16:36:25|
|971 forum posts|
Sod, Reminds me of the man who went looing in the woods for a good walking stick.
He rejected each sample he came to, thinking he might find a better one further on.
Before he knew it, he was out of the wood, with no walking stick !
I have a Chester machine, similar to the warco but belt driven, plain, simple, but very little to go wrong.
Would I like to upgrade ? of course I would, just not worth it, machine does all I want, no point in having a machine I dont need or dont know how to use.
Horses for courses , as my Granny used to say.
|Dave Halford||28/12/2020 16:49:48|
|1388 forum posts|
I had one of those for a jukebox, it was a scam + I don't see how a second chance offer applies as it's dearer than the winning bid.
Report it to ebay, it could be a hacked account.
|Howard Lewis||28/12/2020 16:52:18|
|4662 forum posts|
If the seller is genuine, they should not object to you visiting to examine the machine, (as long as it is within a sensible distance of you ) Talk of cash in hand, and collect may be a persuasive suggestion.
Or would they let someone knowledgeable of your choosing go and examine?
If not, could they provide a video of the machine in use, preferably performing tasks that you specify, to reduce the risk of it being a scam )?
If the answers are "No", "Don't know how to use it" or "Covid" then be suspicious and prepared to walk away.
Warco had at least one used machine like that for sale until recently.
Other secondhand machine dealers may have one or something similar (BH600, Chester Craftsman perhaps? )
Have a look at the sites of those who advertise in MEW, even the.Classifieds on here, or even place an ad in the "Wanted" section, but don't be too specific or you could miss a machine that would suit your needs, but not be to exact spec.
|Rod Clemett||28/12/2020 16:57:22|
|21 forum posts|
I recall reading about an ebay scam with classic motorcycles. The item location is always somewhere that's likely to be too far away for you to view/verify/collect in person - so often the North of Scotland. The kind 'seller' - operating under a hacked ebay account -will admit that he is aware that this remote location could be a stumbling block for striking a deal, and is therefore prepared (out of the goodness of his heart) to ship you the item "on approval". All you have to do is to pay a deposit up front.....
|Martin 100||28/12/2020 23:36:42|
|274 forum posts|
There are endless high priced items on eBay that are pure scams. The seller located in remote areas of Scotland is the norm. Photos are lifted from other genuine sales sites, sometimes ones overseas.
For instance vertical machine centres in the £10-40k area are prime scam territory, pics from a genuine USA machinery dealer, the bright daylight from somewhere very sunny, the US pattern sockets on the walls, yet it’s always located in a sparsely populated area of Scotland, maybe in Lairg, or Tongue, or Durness, or Applecross.
Delivery ‘on a pallet’ is say £200, where it would cost several times cost that for a vehicle and a rigger.
A request for more photos, or a request to view always goes unanswered.
Always do a reverse image search on Google or tineye and the original auction photos reveal all, maybe even the serial number which the scammer won’t have.
Beware that PayPal will disown any and all liability for payments associated with ‘industrial machinery ‘ it may be in their terms and conditions but a scammer would probably prefer a bacs or swift transfer.
Edited By Martin 100 on 28/12/2020 23:37:35
|65 forum posts|
I've only just noticed this thread but I had seen the lathe on ebay together with the other items that the seller (maredw-784) had for sale. When checking 'sold items' to compare the price, the same ad but with a different seller in a different location came up.
If this wasn't enough to convince anyone that the seller was a sammer, all the other facts need to be taken into account.
1. The ebay account is a new one, only opened in November
2. His feedback is all as a buyer, all from bulk sellers so presumably low value items.
3. He was selling several high value yet unrelated items, most of which had descriptions and photos directly lifted from other 'sold item' listing from other, presumably genuine, sellers.
4. He is alledgedly based way up north, making collection for most potential buyers, inconvenient.
5 He doesn't accept paypal, but does accept bank transfer.
6. His auctions are all short duration.
7. His 'sold items' showed the same items he was still selling, sometimes two or three times in the previous few days.
Number 3 should be a massive red flag to a potential buyer. Any of the others should be something of a warning, all of them taken together means this seller is a scammer.
I reported him to ebay twice over Christmas. In the past when I have done this, ebay took the auctiions down straight away. It didn't happen this time and I can only guess that covid and Christmas combined to slow things down.
Ebay can't and won't protect you from all scammers, particularly when paying using BACS. Using BACS is fine face to face, I've both bought and sold reletively high value items this way using on line banking. It's better than cash, but BACS at a distance to someone you can't authenticate is a big no no.
I've had well over 1000 transactions on ebay with no major issues, there's plenty of bargains to be had and hard to find items to be found but always, do a few checks and if it appears too good to be true, it probably is.
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