Are they joking
|pgk pgk||22/11/2020 08:30:01|
|1975 forum posts|
UK average mileage is given as 7.4K 2019 down from 9.2K 2002. Business mileage is roughly double private mileage. If memory serves those that actually had a car circa 70's did about 12K. Lower annula mileage is countered by higher number households with car(s).
|J Hancock||22/11/2020 08:31:29|
|480 forum posts|
I see nothing, yet, to suggest the EU is going to impose the same madness upon the Continent.
So, how does that portend for the future of Continental travel in your EV ?
Take your generator, transformer ,plug/socket , extension lead with you ?
330 forum posts
|not done it yet||22/11/2020 08:41:05|
|5148 forum posts|
Here is a (possibly) useful internet site showing real world ranges, etc of BEVs - but at motorway speeds, which are going to be somewhat different to urban motoring.
They have clearly not included those vehicles which cannot achieve motorway speed of 110kph. The earlier (with smaller battery capacity) nissan leafs don’t seem to rate at motorway speeds.🙂
|pgk pgk||22/11/2020 09:08:04|
|1975 forum posts|
It may not be an EU imposed set of rules but plenty of national incentives amongst the richer countries.
No shortage of charge points albeit fast ones areless common but growing exponentially and there is a set of standards emerging.
You can play with this site making selections of trip types, vehicle specific and (if memory serves) make allowances for weather. It's calculations take account of altitude changes too.
|J Hancock||22/11/2020 09:38:19|
|480 forum posts|
A last point, for the accountants.
Energy from wind is free , yes ?
Or, if not free , then after all maintenance costs have been paid , free, yes ?
IF that is not the case , then how can any of the Green Policy be justified ?
|Mike Poole||22/11/2020 09:40:33|
2814 forum posts
Of course everyone has a different requirement from their vehicle but I suspect many of us do mostly short journeys with some longer trips for days out or weekends away. 10,000 miles a year is 200miles a week but I doubt that it would be that evenly distributed. Much of the time the car will only need a top up a few times a week. The Tesla’s are an impressive vehicle that will do what most people could ever want, PGK has let us in on what living with a Tesla is like but although it is a very practical vehicle I think it falls into the I want one rather than need one category. Hopefully in the future I am going to have the problem of choosing a replacement vehicle and I am thinking maybe buy a relatively short range vehicle and hire one for long range trips. I can sit back for a few years and see what happens. There may be some fun to be had doing a long distance trip with a short range vehicle, a couple of mates decided to go to a motorcycle rally two up with camping gear on a Honda 50, all credit the the Honda it didn’t let them down.
|Michael Gilligan||22/11/2020 09:54:40|
16654 forum posts
Keep putting pennies in the piggy-bank, Mike ... Morgan might be back in the game one day !!
|John Rutzen||22/11/2020 10:02:13|
|288 forum posts|
I don't know where the figures came from but I was quoting from a radio programme about increased car mileage per year, Unfortunately I can't remember what the prog was or when! Perhaps it was in the States. The batteries for electric cars do cause a lot of pollution due to the mining for the materials. Perhaps the programme was averaging the mileage over the population in which case the increased car ownership would account for it.
Edited By John Rutzen on 22/11/2020 10:04:18
|pgk pgk||22/11/2020 10:07:58|
|1975 forum posts|
Sorry .. can't restrain myself...
One of the biggest emerging car growth markets is China. And one of the places with greatest pollution. Why we've allowed china to take over all our manufacturing is a diferent argument but with the economic power they have and no need to worry about patent infringements or reverse engineering they are maing great strides.
Doubtless they'll be on ebay next year (buy pays return postage?)
At the other end of the spectrum the Fiat 500e cheapest costs £20K with about 100mile range ona 24KW battery or 200 mile range on the 42KW pack for 200 mile range @ £23.5K. Assuming you can acutally cram yourself into one! But it'd be fine for a city dweller and the 100 mile range will only take 3hrs to recharge on a home 7KW charge point or 6 hrs off a 13amp circuit - so lots of cable reels dangling down the sides of high-rise city blocks....
|Paul Kemp||22/11/2020 10:31:48|
|580 forum posts|
Apparently the wind turbine towers off the coast have diesel generators within to get them started so there is a brown tinge to green.
|459 forum posts|
Electric vehicles are all well and good for urban areas, but for rural areas like the west of Ireland are totally impractical. At the present time there are few charging points and those that there are don't always work or are occupied when required by Biddy doing her shopping.
Public transport is non-existent in rural Ireland. I would have to walk 2-1/2 miles to the nearest bus stop. Great in the pouring rain and even better when going home again with the shopping!
It will take a sea-change in attitudes to get Paddy the farmer to change his Toyota Landcruiser for an electric alternative (Is there one?), especially as a few years ago the Irish government persuaded people to go for diesel cars. Diesel fuel is approximately 10c/litre cheaper than petrol. (Locally diesel = 1.15 EU litre).
There are a lot of old cars on the roads here and with combustion engines, they somehow keep on going. What happens to the batteries in electric vehicles when they are beyond their useful life? The cost of a replacement battery presently is uneconomic when put into an older vehicle, and to my knowledge they cannot be recycled.
As for the infrastructure, who is going to pay for the many, many thousands of tonnes of copper and other metals required to install the charging networks? You can bet your life, the cost will be passed on to the consumer in higher electricity charges and taxes. Never mind the pollution, invest in copper mining companies and make your fortune!
|pgk pgk||22/11/2020 11:30:41|
|1975 forum posts|
Batteries can be recycled and replaced Link
and the newer ones will be cobalt free.
Getting farmers to change their ways is always harder with the smaller farms but I'm sure Paddy knows how best to claim his subsidies and incentives just like Jones the sheep can.
Electric pick-ups are off the drawing board and prototyped already. Even Paddy might be persuaded when he finds he can plug in his 120 & 240 v power-tools in without needing to cart the genny. Cybertruck is quoted as 500 mile range and a power roof over the flatbed and security cameras to stop Mick nicking stuff...
6469 forum posts
You have to compare all the costs when alternatives are considered.
Open cast is cheaper than deep coal, which involves tunnels, winding, conveyor belts, and lots of people etc. Most UK coal was mined, the deepest shaft being 1400 metres in Lancashire. Geology makes open cast more practical abroad where thick seams are close to the surface. Even so extraction involves stripping £millions of tons of top surface to reach the coal underneath.
Once open to the air open cast coal is stripped with massive machinery before cleaning and sifting. Cheapest way to move it on land is by rail and then by sea. For example, coking coal dug at the Goonyella Riverside Mine in Queensland is transferred about 50km across Australia by narrow gauge railway to a purpose built coaling port at Hay Point. Hay Point is 6000 hectares in size and exports 32 million tons of coal a year. The coal likely goes to China, about 6500km away. In that case, the ore carrier does a round trip of 13000km per cargo, and the coal may be moved again by rail inside China.
So we have a strip mine with heavy machinery, a significant narrow gauge railway with engines and trucks, a large purpose built seaport, and bulk ore carriers moving heavy coal over long distances. All this requiring people, maintenance and replacement of worn-out equipment. And the whole lot is junk when the local coal basin is exhausted.
This compares with an unmanned wind farm transferring electricity by cable almost directly to the customer, most of the way using existing infrastructure. The wind may be unreliable in the short-term, but it never runs out. Yes the wind farm has to be built and maintained, but its substantially cheaper than coal. And cleaner. It's particularly economic in the UK because most of our coal is imported from Columbia, Russia and the USA.
The main problem with green energy is matching demand and production. Coal can be stacked in a yard and burnt when needed: it's easy. Wind and solar are cheap but they deliver at inconvenient times and electricity can't just be shovelled into a heap and used later. The problem is only partly fixed by building wildly scattered wind farms. Although unlikely to be a dead calm off Cornwall and Scapa Flow at the same time, it's possible. The issue isn't the cost of green power, it's making it available when needed. The problem is storage. Many options such as batteries, hydroelectric, steam, molten metals, electrolysis, ammonia, and compressed or liquid air etc. They all work, but none of them are the simple obvious answer, so the future is likely to be a mixture. Interesting times ahead.
|Paul Kemp||22/11/2020 12:20:46|
|580 forum posts|
Interesting comment in that article "(I normally charge at home and work with a 100 amp HPWC)" where I live the main company fuse is 100 amp. What amperage is your home charger?
Also interesting from the fella that left his for a week with 32 miles in the battery, when he returned it had dropped to 12 and now it won't take a full charge. How long can you leave yours to its own devices without being plugged in, without risk? When I was working proper I was out of the country for a month at a time, could I park a Tesla at the airport unplugged for a month and get a 70 mile trip home on my return?
|Paul Kemp||22/11/2020 12:40:21|
|580 forum posts|
The issue of cost of green electricity may not be an issue in the static domestic or industrial setting but it is an issue to use it in a mobile setting like vehicles or boats. The cost of the electricity at the static transfer point can be cheap but the cost of the equipment required to put it on wheels is significant.
Wind farms also are not completely unmanned, all the coastal wind farms have significant maintenance bases with daily deliveries of techs to the turbines. It would be interesting to compare man hours per kWh between a conventional power plant and a wind farm I have no idea what that may be but would agree it's very likely lower for wind but large scale wind is definitely not fit and forget. Probably the least labour intensive post commissioning is solar?
As you rightly say matching generation with demand and the need for storage is the difficult bit and that is where the costs rack up.
|J Hancock||22/11/2020 13:04:14|
|480 forum posts|
Ah well, if it all goes wrong and all the fossile fuel vehicles have been scrapped, there is always the horse.
Unless the Belgians have eaten all those too.
|22 forum posts|
biggest problem as I see it is lack of infrastructure combined with range/charging times. As a service engineer I regularly do 400+ mile round trips in a single day. So I'd probably need to recharge at some point during day. At moment very few factories I visit have charging points and those that do are invariable occupied by senior managements teslas. So I would be dependent on public charging points and having to wait an hour or two whilst car charges. Either we pass on costs of waiting time to customer or absorb it. Either is going to be damaging to the business.
For electric cars to be a viable alternative we need to see ranges roughly doubling and charging times getting down to 15-20 min region. Plus a massive increase in charging points and generating capacity to support it. Bear in mind that a significant proportion of housing in this country doesn't have off street parking so overnight charging isnt possible.
|pgk pgk||22/11/2020 14:49:46|
|1975 forum posts|
'standard' domstic home charger is 7'ish KW usually on a 32A circuit. Newest Teslas UK (can't speak for the others) can take upto 11KW A/C if chargers happen to be on 3-phase. To be correct the car has the charger on-board and the wall unit is a just a fancy socket/switch and some folk use a so-called granny lead off a 16A/32A commando socket but reasons why that's not recommended.
There will always be difficult cases. The model3 with 75KWh battery and 300+ mile range if you topped it off to 100% before leavng home (set it to 90% overnight and finish the charge while dressing/brekkie so it's not at 100% too long and use shore power to get it toasty warm inside before you set off - all done via a phone app)
Or if not a speed merchant then the Tesla Semi (if you want to drive a tug unit and have HGV) will do 600+ miles unladen or 500 miles with a load and keep your speed down to 60mph max. Stick the trailer on it with a conversion and you'ld be able to live on site.
|Steve Skelton 1||22/11/2020 17:07:10|
|89 forum posts|
Some were mentioning that gas boilers and gas networks are due to be ripped out. This is probably a premature statement as the industry are looking at introducing hydrogen into the main gas network with a long term potential switch-over to a non-carbon based gas system.
The government just hasn't woken up to this yet!!
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