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Electric vehicles

Are they joking

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Nicholas Farr20/11/2020 12:20:37
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2559 forum posts
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Hi Michael, reminds one of the war over AC or DC fought between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla, maybe he doesn't want to let the Tesla name down. wink 2 War over Currents

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/11/2020 12:23:45

Michael Gilligan20/11/2020 12:26:32
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17073 forum posts
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Posted by Nicholas Farr on 20/11/2020 12:20:37:

Hi Michael, reminds one of the war over AC or DC fought between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla, maybe he doesn't want the Tesla name down. wink 2 War over Currents

Regards Nick.

.

Indeed it does, Nick ... but what really boggled my mind was that Elon Musk, and China are portrayed as credible contenders in the debate.

MichaelG.

derek hall 120/11/2020 12:31:28
125 forum posts

Almost still on topic...

I thought I read somewhere that Australia imports as much bottled drinking water as it exports bottled drinking water...so it appears that there are ships sailing around the world full of drinking water...

Madness

Regards

Derek

mgnbuk20/11/2020 14:37:27
910 forum posts
65 photos

so a decent solar array could be useful especially in the summer with strong sun and long daylight hours.

Great if you have a sizeable, South facing, unobstructed roof to mount them on.

My set is, in theory, capable of producing 3.5Kw. In practice, I have not seen more than 2.5Kw being produced - Summer can work against you, as hot panels are less effiicient. IIRC a 3.5Kw installation is the largest allowed for domestic solar installations connected to the grid. Maybe they might be helpful to top up an electric car if you don't expect to use it much - I wouldn't want to rely upon the sun shining enough to get to work daily.

Going electric for vehicles probably won't have much of an effect on oil production - all the petrochemicals required to produce the raw materials for plastics, paint, lubricants, graphite, (used for steel & aluminium production as well as in lithium batteries) etc. will still be required, possibly in increased amounts. Just as well BP reckon that known, proven oil reserves were nearly 50% higher in 2019 than in 1999, despite having had 20 years production.

Electric vehicles won't stop pollution - they will just change the type of pollution & move it around.

Nigel B.

Neil Wyatt20/11/2020 16:17:41
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Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 19/11/2020 17:21:23:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/11/2020 16:48:02:

Funnily enough, on another site today someone pointed out that when you lock the car the charge leads also lock (at both ends) to prevent theft.

N.

Not universally true. While some cars may have this feature, not all do. Mine does not. Thete is space for a small padlock on the latch release but the latch is plastic and would not resist a determined attempt to remove the plug.

Robert G8RPI.

I think it's a new feature that's becoming more common.

Steviegtr20/11/2020 16:21:10
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1800 forum posts
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I worked at ICI Wilton in the 80's petrol was burned away as it was a side product from the oil. They had very few petrol stations at that time. Probably none now.

Steve.

Kiwi Bloke20/11/2020 22:55:18
503 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Andy Gray 3 on 19/11/2020 12:49:50:

Re questions about emergency response:

**LINK**

Big thanks to Andy Gray 3 for this link. It's frightening reading. >400V battery voltage. Highly inflammable electrolyte. 10 minutes for capacitors to discharge. 300kg of battery, occupying most of the area between the car's wheels. PPE required for first responders. Need to check status of electrical power and take complex - and presumably model-specific - actions to make vehicle 'safe'.

Woe betide anyone trapped or incapacitated in a crashed EV and also any good Samaritan tempted to interfere.

No-one has responded to my worry that an EV battery dumping all its stored energy in millisecons, if shorted by tangled smashed bodywork, etc. It would be quite spectacular, I think, judging by my childhood 'experiments' putting wire wool, alloy foil, etc. across charged capacitors and the mains and accidental shorts when working on cars., etc.: just magnify by rather a lot...

Steviegtr20/11/2020 23:16:39
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1800 forum posts
242 photos

I hope this does not happen often.

Steve.

tesla.jpg

tesla 2.jpg

Steviegtr20/11/2020 23:34:24
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1800 forum posts
242 photos

I have just done a calculation on the street i live in. I allowed 1.5 cars per household which is probably about right. We have 3.

There are 137 houses in the street , so at 7kw when plugged in charger. We need 1.4 megawatts . I see a mushroom cloud appearing.

An aside to all this. My old pal was a jeweller. They bought a few little boxes & he kept raving about them. He said this guy had invented them. He had these small devices that each morning you filled with a cup of water. Plugged in to a skt & within a short time he lit the flame on the jewellers torch. This torch ran all day on a cup of water.

He said the guy who invented them had invented a car that ran on water, BP energy bought his patent for a lot of spondula's & he could have retired .

He moved his business over to making these little blowtorches.

I would have bought a small island & lived in luxury, but some folk just need to work.

B.P & the rest will not release this tech until the time i right.

Anyone believe this or heard that this tech actually works. There was also talk of an Indian guy who invented the same but strangely disappeared. It does sound logical that water is 2 parts Hydrogen & 1 part Oxygen. No wonder i Fart so much.

Steve.

Food for thought.

pgk pgk20/11/2020 23:38:02
2033 forum posts
290 photos

Kiwi Bloke

I have crashed, shorted and seen thermal runaway with r/c Lipoly batteries (not quite the same as lithium Ion) so i do appreciate the potential for catastrophic failure and the fumes & energy released.

However to put it in perspective one has to compare damages and disasters from petrol vehicle accidents and precautuons taken. Petrol catastrophes are not benign either.

One of the safety features of the Tesla pack is that the individual cells are wired such that a dramatic discharge destroys the wired connection of individual cells and interfers with the drama of an 'instant' cascade. That is not to take away from the potential for thermal runaway. if enough cells are compromised then local heat alone will proliferate the cascade whereas shorting out the pack should lead to those cell connections acting as fuses and isolating the cells.

Effectively that means that in a severe compromise to the full battery it's less likely to be an instant effect and more likely to be a slow brew to later rapid conflagration.

Equally that means that vehicles with damage to their battery areas need to be isolated for week or two before the state can be trusted.

pgk

JasonB21/11/2020 07:46:21
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19600 forum posts
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Stevie, your mates magic boxes start at just over £100 on e-bay. Look for "oxygen hydrogen flame genorator"

Is your street devoid of cars during the day so they all come back with empty batteries at night? If they are all out during the day are they driving about all the time and not able to be parked at a place of work, carpark, etc?

Would any other car that has ruptured it's fuel tank and burnt out not look much the same, I'm assuming one with lightweight aluminium and composite construction ( to counter the battery weight) so there is no steel shell to survive the fire?

Edited By JasonB on 21/11/2020 07:48:57

Anthony Knights21/11/2020 07:59:52
462 forum posts
196 photos

Using the figures mentioned in previous posts, I make an over night charge to be about 50Kwh. As a matter of interest, can anyone tell me how far you could travel on that (approximately).

Michael Gilligan21/11/2020 08:05:56
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17073 forum posts
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Posted by JasonB on 21/11/2020 07:46:21:

Stevie, your mates magic boxes start at just over £100 on e-bay. Look for "oxygen hydrogen flame genorator"

[…]

.

I sent Steve a P.M. last night, so as to avoid publicly tempting him to look at cheap uncertified products from distant sources.

In retrospect, I think this link does more good than harm ... but I will understand if it is removed.

**LINK** : http://mynewworkshop.co.uk/hho.html

MichaelG.

Clive Brown 121/11/2020 09:03:22
594 forum posts
23 photos
Posted by Anthony Knights on 21/11/2020 07:59:52:

Using the figures mentioned in previous posts, I make an over night charge to be about 50Kwh. As a matter of interest, can anyone tell me how far you could travel on that (approximately).

The current on-line DailyTelegraph has "The best 10 electric cars" listing miles/kwHr. Figure varies from 2,8 for a Jag. to 4.4 for a VW. Typically 3.5 to 4. I expect that these are the best that the particular car can achieve.

J Hancock21/11/2020 09:52:12
511 forum posts

To keep the 'maths' easy , about 4 miles for 1kwh, or at 20p /kwh, 5p/mile.

Even a modest diesel/petrol car will be 10p/mile .

The 'difference' is the tax loss to the exchequer.

This will not be allowed to continue.

pgk pgk21/11/2020 10:37:46
2033 forum posts
290 photos

Overnight recharge depends on your definition of overnight. If it's 7pm to 7am @7KW then that can easly totally refuel a 75KWh Model3 with a best range of 350miles stated (real world 300miles summer and 250miles winter) BUT no-one aims to get home on an empty tank and generally one avoids leaving a BEV charged above 90% unless about to use it immediately - not good for the pack to sit at full.

Robert Atkinson 221/11/2020 10:53:30
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885 forum posts
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Posted by Steviegtr on 20/11/2020 16:21:10:

I worked at ICI Wilton in the 80's petrol was burned away as it was a side product from the oil. They had very few petrol stations at that time. Probably none now.

Steve.

Any evidence?
While any refinery will have a flar stack for safety I can't see any company "burning away" significant amounts of any hydrocarbon never mind "petrol". Mose plants will use excess or low value hydrocarbons to produce heat and or power for process use.

On hydrogen generators the missing link is the "plugged nto a socket..." The energy used to produce hydrogen by electrolysis is more tha you can get from the hydrogen. Large commercal plants manage about 70%. The other big problem with hydrogn is storage.

Robert G8RPI.

not done it yet21/11/2020 10:55:49
5428 forum posts
20 photos

J Hancock wrote:

This will not be allowed to continue.

Of course not. The government tries hard to stop thieving - because they don’t like the competition!

That is why eventually all new vehicles will be fitted with ‘Big Brother” recording packages - so not only will they be able to charge on mileage travelled, but also know where you have been.🙂 Tesla do this already, btw.

Likely initially only charged on main roads, to help out those poor souls who live out in the sticks.🙂

I expect you are likely one of those that already consider motorists are unfairly targeted, by the Chancellor, for easy tax revenue?

Bazyle21/11/2020 11:25:00
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5708 forum posts
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Posted by Steviegtr on 20/11/2020 23:34:24:

I have just done a calculation on the street i live in. I allowed 1.5 cars per household which is probably about right. We have 3.

This is going to have to change. People living in town will have to be restricted to one small car, like a geewiz size, per two or three houses, range only 10 miles to get to shops that are outside cyclig range. Each comunity will have access to a few rental long range cars which sensibly should be hybrid electric/hydrogen powered.

Also all this talk of daily needing 50kwh etc is going to have to be rationalised. Stop all this non essential commuting, travelling salesmen, FtoF meetings, site working tradesmen travelling every day. Everyone live within cycling, or bus range of work if it needs physical presence, schools all in walking range etc. Introduce time of year/weather restrictions on travel to when power is available.

Another big change we need is to remove the moneygrubbing planning constraints on installing domestic solar installations up to about 15KW so more energy can be generated locally. The excess daytime energy (above the 3kw feed in allowed) going into the car but potentially availabe at night back into the house/grid.
Excluding heating I use 8KWh per day but the DHW could be solar too still leaving about 5KWh for computer, modem, lights, radio, fridge, kettle, microwave.

will hawkes21/11/2020 11:50:12
20 forum posts

i have solved the problem ,do not have a car or van and now use a 1937 panther motorcycle for all my transport needs including trips to the shops ,no road tax no mot needed and classic insurance at £68 ,fully comp ,,couple this with 100 mpg and you get a happy pensioner

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