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Covid causing mental health issues.

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Mick B126/09/2020 20:18:10
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Peter Shaw :- Game software, commercial, marketing and employment monitoring software is one thing. It's written to a budget, and often uses repurposed routines from elsewhere.

Nationally-released, government- sponsored Public Health software for pandemic control, already delayed and trumpeted as critical, is something else. Yes, you can always expect bugs, but the neglect of such a fundamental function argues a failure of managment at the most basic level.

Meunier26/09/2020 20:35:01
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Interesting couple of days...yesterday (Friday ) late afternoon MrsD called me to look out and a cock pheasant and his lady were strutting along inside our boundary hedge. Today at around 2pm, checked the post with the dog and returning he stood and stared. A cock pheasant on the grass, joined at speed by another male and they proceeded to challenge each other, wings outstretched and heads down. Is that what is called 'lecking' ?
DaveD

Neil Wyatt26/09/2020 20:38:58
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Can we be careful discussion of the covid app doesn't stray into politics.

Plenty of other places online to make your view known on that subject!

Neil

Robin Graham26/09/2020 21:39:03
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Posted by Trevor Crossman 1 on 26/09/2020 19:12:55:

...

From what I read and hear many of these are suffering and are quite likely to continue to do so long after our well heeled rulers have allowed people to return to normal human existence.

...

Trevor

Trevor, I agree with a lot of what you said, but think it may be worth saying that it's really not our rulers (whatever you think of them and their motives) preventing us from returning to normal existence, it's the blasted virus. The death count in the UK currently stands at at about 40,000 and rising - that's comparable with the number of UK civilians killed in the seven months between Sept 1940 and May 1941 by bombing. But the virus doesn't whistle and bang, so the perception of threat is less immediate. I imagine Londoners in WWII were by and large happy to live with  the inconvenience of the blackout regulations decreed by their well-heeled rulers in order to preserve their lives.

Apologies if I have misconstrued your point - I wish you well.

Robin.

Edited By Robin Graham on 26/09/2020 21:44:46

Trevor Crossman 127/09/2020 09:49:03
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Well Robin, thanks for your good wishes, but I'd better careful or I'll get the pointy end of a Mods pencil in my ear, but I am not making any political point, simply that I think that insufficient resources are provided for those folk who need more help both financial and psychological to be able to get through this colossal disruption of normality. The adjective that I used for our rulers is, I feel, valid because they are well funded and have better access to health services than a laid-off short contract family in poor housing where many are becoming very worried about their future.

Social histories confirm that your comparison with 1940/41 is valid, the wealthy and well connected had a much jollier time of it than the common man both in city and county and indeed many reports of less concern for Hitler's bombs than for where the next meal was and if they'd have a job to go to the next day.. The current threat from this virus is not as well proven a danger as several hundred kilos of high explosive landing in your garden and many folks are more confused about the mixed messages and ever changing rules. We won't return to what was before and many others will need help with the readjustment, and that will need both state and community help. There are (barely) working families terrified of what the future holds for them and their children, a normally stout friend has started having panic attacks such that she was admitted to hospital , now recovering. The virus may not be directly causing mental health issues but the conditions it's created do seem to be.

Plasma28/09/2020 16:38:17
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Support for those who have lost jobs, income etc. Is a fantastic thing. But it will only go so far, and last so long before it becomes impossible to keep up. The government can't pay people to do nothing ad infinitum, virus or no.

Support for the aviation industry should be a big NO in my book. If it was not for people being able to fly all over the globe in hours the pandemic would never have spread as quickly if at all. I lay the biggest portion of responsibility at their door, including the folk who simply must travel the world for fun and mind expansion.

Support for football leagues? Ridiculous absolutely ridiculous. It makes money but it produces nothing except grossly inflated wages for a lucky few. Its not a part of our culture, its a game at best and has become a divisive and bloated version of its original roots. Id be glad to see it cut down to size or disappear altogether.

Students, clever people, the brightest young talent? Im sorry but my experience of student life in sheffield is nothing but one mass booze up with a bit of learning thrown in if they can be bothered to turn up to lectures. I know there are studious young people out there taking the best from university education, but the majority are going to Uni for an experience not an education. No wonder there are record numbers of students taking an easy time instead of taking a job.

And finally on the subject of mental health, I have recently had to make use of the NHS services due to a bout of Anxiety and depression. The majority of the programme was based on self help and maintaining a positive attitude rather than any kind of treatment or medicines. Many of my fellow patients at the group sessions grumbled that this was rubbish and not a cure. They totally missed the point that we are all responsible for our own mental as well as physical health. The Nhs can't mend every thing as we are seeing during the virus.

Apoliges for several topics in one post and for being on my soap box but none of this is political, just my honest opinion to which I am entitled. Please don't gave a go if you disagree, just agree to disagree. Its modern life that has brought all these problems on us, maybe we need to change before its too late....

Martin King 228/09/2020 18:00:01
717 forum posts
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"Yes, Cats are an essential part of our household. A house without having independent creatures wandering around at will doing what they do is just a house to me, it’s not a home. "

Well said Vic, so true!

Martin (aka cat staff!)

not done it yet28/09/2020 18:42:35
5024 forum posts
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Plasma,

I’m much in agreement with what you posted - pwrhaps with a few exceptions.

I agree with the aviation. We could survive without it.

Football is geared for success - making money. Some will fail. So what? Football and other sports will continue at a lower level. The top level is there for what?

Mental health. Much like obesity - it just did not happen in world war II (lets not include shell-shock trauma sufferers). I suspect that a lot (not all, of course) mental health (and obesity) is self-inflicted. Expecting a pill to ‘cure’ the problem (quite likely caused by taking pills in the first place) and/or a pill to reduce poor eating habits just adds to the cost of the NHS at a time when we should all be able to put right the ‘ills’ by changing our outlook - or expectations. Rightly, there are some who need help for mental issues (and some for obesity) but I honestly believe a lot is down to over-blown social expectations.

Just at the moment, the NHS needs all the help it can receive to minimise the covid load, not students ‘jollying it up’ and creating infection hotspots (reported as at the rate of 6000/100,000 infection rate on one forum) or people complaining of the limitations on their activities.

I know that my local pub didn’t care a hoot about social distancing (until recently). I suspect that if the names of those shouting that covid is a hoax, etc,were recorded so that if they catch it they would forego any NHS treatment, there would be fewer out there complaining.

blowlamp28/09/2020 19:36:28
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As we've been told, this virus isn't ever going away, so we're going to live like this forever.

We need to embrace new ways of communicating without the need for embracing physically.

Be kind, be strong, cling on. tea

Frances IoM28/09/2020 19:58:21
831 forum posts
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6000 per 100,000 is just 6% of a population of unspecified size - university student accommodation must be the most friendly possible for covid - shared accommodation + communal facilities for a large group at the age when social interaction is essential and any intergroup contact will almost guarantee infection of the group - totally foreseeable by anyone who has lived in student accommodation
Mick B128/09/2020 20:32:06
1730 forum posts
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Risk is of getting into politics again, but support for people doing nothing is what might be needed. Very many jobs have and will continue to disappear on account of automation of farming, manufacturing and computerisation of administration. There's no way to continue with the employment of the armies of operatives and clerks of yesteryear, and even skilled sensorimotor jobs like driving and construction are coming under threat.

Some countries are already considering Universal Basic Income, and I'm wondering if this will actually be the only way forward in supporting the populations we have, whose once-crucial roles in the world's economies are being steadily eroded. The drastic reduction due to the pandemic of industries involving travel, hospitality and cosmetic services - which had recently taken up much of the employment slack - (when the textile mills and the mines were still running, how many towns had a nail bar or a pet-grooming parlour?) will only accelerate this trend.

In the medium term, many of the alternatives would be likely to involve atrocities of neglect.

Edited By Mick B1 on 28/09/2020 20:41:03

mark costello 128/09/2020 20:45:58
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Universal Basic income is another Ponzi scheme paid for Those who are working. Their tax burden is already enough. I am retired.wink

Peter G. Shaw28/09/2020 21:35:06
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It's been obvious for a long time that sooner or later jobs were going to start disappearing. Initially it was computerisation, eg the typing pool being replaced by word processors, then mechanisation, eg machines doing the work which was previously manual work, and then of course off-shoring, eg call centres in India et al, although it has to be said that some companies are bringing these jobs back on shore because although it costs more, in terms of publicity, having a local call centre is proving rather more advantageous. Indeed, I've long thought that eventually we & not necessarily the UK, but worldwide, will have a small core of highly trained individuals whilst the rest of us eke out a miserable existance doing I know not what. In effect Covid-19 looks to me as if it may have brought matters to a head.

What is the answer? I don't know. Just as long as it isn't something like Logan's Run, or Soylent Green.

Peter G. Shaw

Plasma28/09/2020 22:38:46
443 forum posts
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Im only 55, when I was at junior school the question was posed "How old will you be in the year 2000"

Obviously to a 7 year old this was an immeasurable distance away and the answer, 35 years old, was unthinkable.

But we were also asked what we would be doing. Most of us said nothing because robots would be doing all the work and we would just be on holiday full time.

Its not far off that in many industries but no one foresaw how we would fund this constant holiday.

Perhaps covid is bringing things to a head but again, it is we that have caused so much damage to the planet and now even cluttering up space around it that we should look a little closer to home. Mr Attenborough has got it right, if we don't pull our head out of our ass soon it will be too late.

Leaders like Trump and bolsanaro and the rest have such short sight that the race will kill itself off if left to its own devices.

Our tenure on this rock has been but a blip on a geological time scale, even pond slime and big lizards lasted longer than us. Maybe the fat lady is clearing her throat (after losing her sense of taste and smell)

Worried of Wombwell

duncan webster29/09/2020 00:00:17
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There's nothing sacred about working 5 days a week. When I was a lad many people worked Saturday morning, in fact when I went to secondary school we were the first year that didn't have compulsory school on Saturday (I had to go anyway as I was in the band). Over the course of time the working week has steadily declined, if everyone went to a 4 day week say 30 hours, there would be enough work to go round. Of course that would mean improving skills, something we in the UK seem particularly bad at

Neil Wyatt29/09/2020 12:38:59
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Posted by not done it yet on 28/09/2020 18:42:35:

Mental health. Much like obesity - it just did not happen in world war II (lets not include shell-shock trauma sufferers).

I'm not sure that's true at all.

My mum was born in 1939 and all her life she got freaked out by sirens.

A sample of one, perhaps, but...

Neil

pgk pgk29/09/2020 12:56:53
1913 forum posts
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Sadly there is a difference between hours worked and productive work. There is also a difference in the true value of different types of work for the benefit of society hence the labelling of key workers. Whether their salary is a reflection of their value is a matter for the public debate.

Many Sci-fi scenarios suggest automation and hardly any need for true work and a society that uses it's time for self-improvement - sadly a ficticious utopia more likely to be a case of ' devil makes work for idle hands'

In reality there is never a shortage of 'work' - just a shortage of jobs people want to do or pay for. Even the largest mechanised construction project ends up with a chap, a broom and a bucket clearing up. In my Utopia where fossil car no longer exist (and personally I favour hydrogen despite the energy losses) then every wide verge and motorway bank could be either a wildlife habitat or an orchard or a solar farm. Instead we have folk l myself writng stuff on forums 'cos I'm putting off getting the wood-chipper out...

pgk

SillyOldDuffer29/09/2020 13:51:53
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Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/09/2020 12:38:59:
Posted by not done it yet on 28/09/2020 18:42:35:

Mental health. Much like obesity - it just did not happen in world war II (lets not include shell-shock trauma sufferers).

I'm not sure that's true at all.

My mum was born in 1939 and all her life she got freaked out by sirens.

A sample of one, perhaps, but...

Neil

Not quite as famous as Neil's mum during WW2, but one Winston Churchill suffered badly from depression. He called it 'Black Dog', a term first written in a letter by Samuel Johnson (died 1784). 'What will you do to keep away the black dog that worries you at home...' As the word melancholia comes to us from classical Greece, this ain't a new problem.

As NDIY is a tough guy, definitely not a Snowflake, he won't mind me pointing out his opinion is ignorant rubbish.

'Mental health. Much like obesity - it just did not happen in world war II'? Come on NDIY, engage brain! Really? Check the facts. Read some biographies. Use imagination. Think back to your youth - didn't you notice any oddly behaved ex-servicemen in the family or working as school-masters? Or twitchy women?

Admittedly more obvious in men who'd been through the Great War, but I've known several WW2 veterans who were struggling 40 years later. Early in my career I was privileged to share an office with two men who'd spent WW2 in Japanese custody, not together. Terse, nervy, unhappy, difficult, short-tempered, dull men who were almost silent . They talked to each other and sometimes forgot I was there; nightmares, flashbacks, walking the streets at night, heavy drinking, chain smoking, bed-wetting, upset by nothing, panic attacks, rage, and a strong desire to end it all. Quite different from John Mills' doing his stiff-upper-lip act in a war film.

Dealing with mental health issues is made extra difficult by the bad attitudes of prejudiced thickos - chaps who should now better talking unhelpful rollocks because they can't or won't understand the problem. 'There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.'

Best advice, be nice!

Dave

Frances IoM29/09/2020 14:36:33
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S.O.D. - one of my research topics is the WW1 internment of German/Austrian civilians on the Isle of Man - many men, often young and intelligent, killed themselves as they could not take the enforced imprisonment and lack of personal freedom and forced proximity of the same people - known as barbedwire disease - many escaped such by diving into hobby work or volunteering to work, at slave rates, on farms to produce the food that prewar was imported - several hundred others mostly poor Austrians worked at poor wages in a brush factory but at least they kept sane.
Mick B129/09/2020 15:48:23
1730 forum posts
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+1 for S.O.D's view. I can remember 3 teachers when I was at school who'd fought in the war. One had been in North Africa and twitched and shook most of the time, even in the mid-'60s. One had been held PoW in the Far East and was unable to turn his head more than about 30 degrees or lift his hands above his shoulder. One had been, I think, in the Navy and appeared more-or-less OK. All of them needed to be - and generally were - treated with more consideration than 'ordinary' teachers.

Just saying 'let's not include' this or that category doesn't suffice. They were there and hit by the misery just like others, and they were the same as those others before whatever happened to them.

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