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WM16 or SX2

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Dennis D19/09/2020 10:46:24
72 forum posts
2 photos

Whatever machine you decide on think about adding a DRO system to help with the positioning of the drilled holes. There are plenty of budget systems on the market and have been covered in threads on this forum.

Paul Mallen19/09/2020 22:35:38
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44 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks Nigel, I will have to see if i can view them when i get on my computer, snd i tend to buy Rennie taps and have always found them to be good so i will be having a look when i get mine. I'm hoping to get a swivel tilting vice as i think this would be of use to me when drilling the saddles for the bridge.

Hi Dennis, yes i've been looking at them and intend on getting one, i have just built my own coil winder for pickup making and used a hall effect sensor on it to count the number of winds, and i know this can be adapted for RPM as well so i intend to knock something up until i can afford a good DRO

Edited By Paul Mallen on 19/09/2020 22:50:47

SillyOldDuffer20/09/2020 10:26:31
Moderator
6331 forum posts
1389 photos

Posted by Paul Mallen on 19/09/2020 22:35:38:

...just built my own coil winder for pickup making and used a hall effect sensor on it to count the number of winds, and i know this can be adapted for RPM as well so i intend to knock something up until i can afford a good DRO

...

Don't let me put you off rolling your own, but if time and money are short, I fitted two of these very basic DRO scales and displays to my mill, and they work well. I intended them to be temporary but they're still going strong 5 years later!

arcdro.jpg

Mine came from Arc Eurotrade (it's their image) , other suppliers available.

Differences between these and 'decent' DROs: battery powered (6 to 9months); two displays to look at, not one ergonomically combined with buttons; simple functionality - doesn't do PCD and other clever stuff (that I've never needed); scales have to be kept clean and avoid splashing coolant and swarf; not top accuracy, but 0.02mm is good enough for me and at least as accurate as my mill's dials. Despite shortcomings they make using the mill much easier.

Only problem I've had was one of the USB plugs intermittently lost contact when mounted on the control box and the contactor thumped in and out. Moving the displays under the table fixed that.

When they give up the ghost I shall upgrade. So far no need.

Dave

Oldiron20/09/2020 11:16:27
530 forum posts
22 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/09/2020 10:26:31:

Posted by Paul Mallen on 19/09/2020 22:35:38:

...just built my own coil winder for pickup making and used a hall effect sensor on it to count the number of winds, and i know this can be adapted for RPM as well so i intend to knock something up until i can afford a good DRO

...

Don't let me put you off rolling your own, but if time and money are short, I fitted two of these very basic DRO scales and displays to my mill, and they work well. I intended them to be temporary but they're still going strong 5 years later!

arcdro.jpg

Mine came from Arc Eurotrade (it's their image) , other suppliers available.

Differences between these and 'decent' DROs: battery powered (6 to 9months); two displays to look at, not one ergonomically combined with buttons; simple functionality - doesn't do PCD and other clever stuff (that I've never needed); scales have to be kept clean and avoid splashing coolant and swarf; not top accuracy, but 0.02mm is good enough for me and at least as accurate as my mill's dials. Despite shortcomings they make using the mill much easier.

Only problem I've had was one of the USB plugs intermittently lost contact when mounted on the control box and the contactor thumped in and out. Moving the displays under the table fixed that.

When they give up the ghost I shall upgrade. So far no need.

Dave

I agree Dave. The I-Gaging scales are good. I have them on both my mills. I also have them ready to refit to my lathe after a strip down and refurb'. I have done away with the batteries on the Chester and have used a PC power supply with a variable DC dropper to get 3.3 vdc from 12vdc. On the Ajax I use BluDro in conjunction with a cheap 7" tablet as a display. I can do bolt circles & 1/2 dimensions with that as well. I actually bought mine in the USA (less than 1/2 price of UK versions) more than 6 years ago and they are still going strong.

regards

not done it yet20/09/2020 18:33:45
5024 forum posts
20 photos

I note, from another thread, that Warco apparently subscribe to possibly misinforming/misleading the potential customer as to the real power of the machine - in that they seem to quote input power (in kW), not the output power of the motor (in either kW or HP).

Paul Mallen20/09/2020 18:51:07
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44 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks Dave & Oldiron, i was going to mount a couple of digital verniers onto T bolts & use those but they look like a decent price - probably what the verniers would cost so i'll be all over those!

Not done it yet, i'll have a look for that & its a bit naughty if correct...

SillyOldDuffer20/09/2020 20:18:36
Moderator
6331 forum posts
1389 photos
Posted by not done it yet on 20/09/2020 18:33:45:

I note, from another thread, that Warco apparently subscribe to possibly misinforming/misleading the potential customer as to the real power of the machine - in that they seem to quote input power (in kW), not the output power of the motor (in either kW or HP).

Not true of my Warco milling machine!  It's genuine.

But motor ratings are confusing.

In theory a motor rated in HP always means output, but it's not the law. Ratings in Watts can refer to either input or output. It's not a con, but it helps if the spec is clear.

I don't get too worried about the difference between input and output power because the high efficiency of electric motors means the difference probably isn't critical in a home workshop. And don't forget, the output rating isn't the maximum a motor is capable of, it can do much more, at least in short bursts. The rating is the power the motor can deliver over some duty cycle without overheating. It's hard to tell if a 1000W out motor (50%) is better or worse than a 500W motor (100%).

Provided motors on hobby machines are used intermittently and aren't flogged there shouldn't be a problem. Selecting the right motors is vital in production because they often work hard round the clock, but we rarely hammer machines like that. Or shouldn't!

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/09/2020 20:19:19

Colin Heseltine20/09/2020 20:32:39
460 forum posts
130 photos

If thinking of a DRO, take a look at Touch-DRO. This is free software which runs on an Android tablet and provides the display. The scales can be either glass, magnetic or the capacitance type shown by Dave (SOD) in earlier post. These are read by a controller you can make yourself (which uses a Texas Instruments MSP430 chip) Have a look at www.yuriystoys.com.

I use this software and controller with magnetic scales on my Cowells lathe and mill.

Colin

Paul Mallen21/09/2020 10:43:16
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44 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks Dave thats sort of confirmed what i was thinking about motor size, the one on my ML4 is 3/4hp and i have pushed that quite hard at times & all i've managed to do is make the belt slip, i don't think the work i intend to do will push it hard enough to burn it out - well i certainly hope not anyway!!

Thanks Colin but i'm strictly an apple fanboy but i will have a look in the app store to see if they have anything similar.

mechman4821/09/2020 14:57:24
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2752 forum posts
423 photos

... 'I fitted two of these very basic DRO scales and displays to my mill, and they work well. I intended them to be temporary but they're still going strong 5 years later!'

arcdro.jpg

Mine came from Arc Eurotrade (it's their image) , other suppliers available.

'Differences between these and 'decent' DROs: battery powered (6 to 9months); two displays to look at, not one ergonomically combined with buttons; simple functionality - doesn't do PCD and other clever stuff (that I've never needed); scales have to be kept clean and avoid splashing coolant and swarf; not top accuracy, but 0.02mm is good enough for me and at least as accurate as my mill's dials. Despite shortcomings they make using the mill much easier'.

...These are the same dro's that I have set up on my WM16 & at present not in the realms of upgrading to any thing more expensive, much as I'd like to. I can concur with the above comments whole heartedly, to date I change the batteries once a year & I only fit the CR 2032 type, as others I've tried, alternative brands, don't last as near as long. As for the minute discrepency in readings... as above, so far I'm quite satisfied with these so will keep the set up for as long as it / they keeps going, worth the cost for these. Usual disclaimer appliies.

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 21/09/2020 14:58:09

not done it yet21/09/2020 21:18:38
5024 forum posts
20 photos
Posted by Paul Mallen on 21/09/2020 10:43:16:

Thanks Dave thats sort of confirmed what i was thinking about motor size, the one on my ML4 is 3/4hp and i have pushed that quite hard at times & all i've managed to do is make the belt slip, i don't think the work i intend to do will push it hard enough to burn it out - well i certainly hope not anyway!

Dave is thinking more about duty cycle, not maximum power output. On the other recent thread, the poster quoted a one horsepower motor while the supplier could have been suggesting 1 1/2 HP.

I personally don’t know which might be correct, as my machines are all power output, but where there is a potential of a 50% over misunderstanding, it is always good for the purchaser to make sure of the specs quoted before comparing machines.

What I do know is that some machines (particularly bandsaws?) seem to be quoting numbers ~100% higher than others, who likely quote real output power (whatever the duty cycle might be, as that is a completely separate issue).

Compressors are another where free air delivery is far less than the ‘air displacement’ value quoted (in the same units). Generator suppliers often quote kVA as output power without adding that 0.8 factor, that needs to be applied, to compare with those manufacturers quoting unity power factor output in kW.

Luckily, this disparity does not occur with purely resistive items - you get what the rating plate says, for a kettle as an example (I, for one, would not be happy to find a kettle to have an advertised rating 100% higher than it really was!).

There are likely countless other examples where the uninformed can easily be mislead by ‘clever’ advertising.

A bit like politicians - they don’t lie, but equally don’t often tell the whole truth (usually by changing the answer to something different than the question). They all rely on 50% of the population being below average.🙂

Paul Mallen22/09/2020 08:40:41
avatar
44 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks George, another +1 for those DRO’s , certainly less off a faff than my original plan with the digital verniers so it looks like I’ll be investing in those!

Not done it yet - to be honest it all goes above my head as I’m not very au fait when it comes to electrics, I can wire a guitar & a plug & that’s about the scope of my knowledge in that department, luckily I know a spark or two & can usually bribe them with tea & timber (one is a wood turner & I do a few big gardens & I have a big chainsaw) to sort out any jobs I may need doing . That’s the biggest attraction for me buying new to be honest, if it goes pop or doesn’t live up to expectations then I have someone I can call & talk to, which stands for a lot when I’m finding my feet in all this

Ron Laden22/09/2020 10:06:53
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2008 forum posts
400 photos

Another +1 for the ARC DRO, s

I fitted them to the 3 axis on the SX2P they have been 100% reliable and accurate or at least as accurate to what I will ever need.

Protecting them against swarf and coolant is easy on the X and Y, I fitted a length of 25 x 25 x 1.5mm alu angle along the top to act as a swarf guard. The Z is not quite as easy but I used the same method and slotted the angle for the reader bracket to fit through and its worked well, picture below.

dsc06844.jpg

Edited By Ron Laden on 22/09/2020 10:08:20

mechman4822/09/2020 10:40:06
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2752 forum posts
423 photos

Paul, have a look in my album ' DRO' , you can see how I set my dro's up on my WM16. The 'Y' axis follows the contoured angle of the base where as some members have set theirs vertical to the base with extra brackets, so far it hasn't affected the way mine works, as long as the horizontal axis is set true & level.

George.

Paul Mallen23/09/2020 08:48:06
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44 forum posts
16 photos

Thanks Ron, I like the trick with the angle too, I have a bit of it that I brought for a job that ended up as surplus to requirements and has been resting in the workshop for a while, now I’m glad I didn’t smelt down!

Thanks George, I like the way you’ve attached that & will have to see what I end up with (I’ve just had a couple of days work come in so my budget may well be increasing a little bit, but it all helps), I’m still aiming to buy new but am keeping my eye on the usual websites just in case a bargain arises

Paul Mallen25/09/2020 18:19:39
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44 forum posts
16 photos

Just an update to say I bit the bullet & ordered a new SX2 from ARC earlier along with a starter kit to get me playing, I have to say if the efficiency of ARC is anything to go by it should be a good experience!

Roll on Tuesday!!!

not done it yet27/09/2020 09:55:26
5024 forum posts
20 photos

A good decision, I would say. At least you will have no regrets because of your meanness!🙂 Well done - you can now start playing. Good luck with your machining.

Nigel (egi)18/10/2020 11:18:29
avatar
71 forum posts
8 photos

Finally, too late for this selection, I've edited a few bits together a an overview of the Sieg SX2.7

https://youtu.be/6AdO6h4j5Jk

Note sure this youtube embed feature is working though...

Edited By Nigel (egi) on 18/10/2020 11:19:54

Edited By JasonB on 18/10/2020 13:08:32

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