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Ideal Guillotine

Sharpening question?

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OldMetaller15/09/2020 13:06:12
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175 forum posts
22 photos

Greetings fellow forumites, I have a friend from the world of bookbinding who has the machine in the photographs- he believes it is an Ideal guillotine, made in Germany, and some few years old.

He wants to get the blade resharpened, it is 58cm long by 9cm deep, and presumably hardened.

He may have found somewhere in Manchester who will do this -he's waiting to find out- but in the interim, he would welcome any information on this tool that forum members could provide.

Thank you ,

John.

img_0722.jpegimg_0721.jpegimg_0720.jpeg

Peter Hall15/09/2020 13:11:23
110 forum posts
1 photos

Whatever make it is, someone's removed the safety guards. surprise Use with care; it's more than capable of removing your friend's fingers, or anyone else's for that matter.

Pete

roy entwistle15/09/2020 13:33:02
1225 forum posts

I came across these guillotines some 30 or 40 years ago. Judging by the first photograph, the blade is nearing the end of it's life. The securing screws are at the top of the slots. Make sure that it is supported along it's full length when being reground or it will end up sharp at the ends but not in the middle.

Roy

Bill Phinn15/09/2020 18:06:39
348 forum posts
69 photos

John, I used to have an old manual guillotine for bookbinding, but gave it away. I didn't like the idea of it in the home.

I now only have a Victorian cast iron board chopper with a 3ft long, scissor-style blade. It won't cut paper stacks, of course, but it's indispensable for cutting hard mill board.

Like your friend, I live in Manchester. I've had my board chopper blade sharpened once - about fifteen years ago at Easicut Precision Grinding in Sharston, M22. They did a decent job. I don't know how good they are today, but your friend might try them if he hasn't already found someone else.

Bookbinders in Manchester aren't numerous. Give your friend my good wishes for success in his chosen pursuit.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 15/09/2020 18:08:56

Ian Parkin15/09/2020 18:19:02
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834 forum posts
202 photos

I worked on the electric versions quite a lot in the past

the manual ones don’t really have any safety features as such

the blades are either carbon steel or high speed Steel on ideals so not hardened

anything you need to know ask away

blade sharpening at a couple of places in sheffield

Vic15/09/2020 18:25:07
2565 forum posts
16 photos

I’ve used a couple of Guillotines like that. The blades when new are extremely sharp and should be handled with great care. I bought a new blade for one of them and it wasn’t expensive.

Peter Bell15/09/2020 18:25:48
314 forum posts
146 photos

John,

If you cannot find anywhere handy Kennedy grinding have a branch at Unit 1, Bayley Industrial Estate Stalybridge SK15 1PL, they also run a collection service.

Looks in nice condition but as Roy says the mounting screws are at the end of there slots indicating the knife is worn out. Alternativly it may need adjusting and as it looks a manual machine the knife may have been dropped too low to compensate for being blunt. I've had knives which have had the holes elongated to give a bit extra life and some knives have extra holes from new. The knives are often only hardened on the cutting edge and repeated sharpening reveals a softer material and the knife goes blunt very quickly.

Peter

Vic15/09/2020 18:34:44
2565 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by Ian Parkin on 15/09/2020 18:19:02:

the manual ones don’t really have any safety features as such.

Both of the ones I used had fixed clear plastic guards on one side of the blade and movable guards on the other side. Without the guard in place the operating handle couldn’t be moved. Without these safety features I doubt they’d be able to sell them.

This is similar to the ones I used.

**LINK**

Vic15/09/2020 18:51:07
2565 forum posts
16 photos

I’ve just remembered, that red thing in the base is a consumable plastic cutting strIp that the blade comes down onto. You can rotate it four times and flip it end to end giving you eight working faces. Eventually they wear though and need to be replaced. It does take a lot of cuts though so your friends may still be serviceable, just worth knowing if it’s not obvious in use.

old mart15/09/2020 18:57:52
1911 forum posts
151 photos

I wonder if it could be sharpened by hand with a diamond lap of about 600 or 800 grit?

Peter Bell15/09/2020 19:12:52
314 forum posts
146 photos

Yes the cutting stick is important and readily available. When its worn the knife works in a groove rather than on a flat surface.

Maybe possible to hone it a bit but a properly ground knife makes a big difference.

Peter

old mart15/09/2020 19:16:08
1911 forum posts
151 photos

It doesn't look exactly antique, maybe new blades can be obtained.

Ian Parkin15/09/2020 21:34:00
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834 forum posts
202 photos

Blades easily available but about £150 now

its probably a 1980’s machine that one so not old

OldMetaller16/09/2020 09:07:02
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175 forum posts
22 photos

Wow! Thank you gentlemen! Once again, the forum comes up trumps!

I'll pass this on to my friend, I'm sure he will be pleased at all this information!

John.

ega16/09/2020 10:20:46
1786 forum posts
152 photos

Do these blades have a straight cutting edge?

A slight curve might help with the cut but would perhaps be more difficult to sharpen.

Peter Bell16/09/2020 12:47:59
314 forum posts
146 photos

The knife has a straight edge, Ive only ever seen straight ones. The knife moves doesn't downwards in a straight line but moves side ways as it descends and cuts.

Peter

ega17/09/2020 00:15:22
1786 forum posts
152 photos
Posted by Peter Bell on 16/09/2020 12:47:59:

The knife has a straight edge, Ive only ever seen straight ones. The knife moves doesn't downwards in a straight line but moves side ways as it descends and cuts.

Peter

Thank you. The movement you describe would seem to give a progressive, slicing cut - clever stuff!

Bandersnatch17/09/2020 01:24:27
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1716 forum posts
60 photos
Posted by ega on 17/09/2020 00:15:22:

Thank you. The movement you describe would seem to give a progressive, slicing cut - clever stuff!

So would an angled straight edge .... as on a metal-cutting guillotine.

Bill Phinn17/09/2020 01:38:30
348 forum posts
69 photos
Posted by Bandersnatch on 17/09/2020 01:24:27:

So would an angled straight edge .... as on a metal-cutting guillotine.

Or as on the original head-cutting ones.

Ian Parkin17/09/2020 16:26:34
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834 forum posts
202 photos

I was at one of my customers and did a short video of a real sized paper cutting guillotine

this is a polar mohr Guillotine with side lifts air tables jogger and palpating attachments

see how easily the operator moves around perhaps 80 kg of paper and the power with which the machine cuts.

this has a 5kw motor spinning up a flywheel weighing 300 kg

the knife in this one is a tungsten tipped blade which lasts about 2 weeks whereas a HSS one would only last a day or so

i don’t know whether i can post links now but search on YouTube for “polar guillotine sheffield”

Can i post links to my video’s?

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