By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

Type identification of a endmill tool holder (Hauser)

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Greensands14/09/2020 12:43:32
287 forum posts
59 photos

Hi - Can anyone help me with the identification of the type of milling tool holder illustrated and currently being used with a vintage Hauser Horizontal/Vertical bench type milling machine. The tool as shown is bored to fit a 1/4" diameter endmill and the rear threaded to take a 1/4" BSF drawbar. I have been told that it may be a Pultra type fitting but I have not been able to find any equivalents on the open market.

cutter (1).jpg

Alexander Smith 114/09/2020 13:11:58
44 forum posts
26 photos

I have a Hauser mill which takes the Shaublin P9 collet and looks suspiciously like ypurs( 9mm diameter and 2BA internal thread. If it is, then hen's teeth are common in comparison. I managed to find a couple from a French dealer. If anyone would like to dispose of any, let me know.

sandy

DC31k14/09/2020 14:37:31
586 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by Alexander Smith 1 on 14/09/2020 13:11:58:

...Schaublin P9 collet ...then hen's teeth are common in comparison

M. Georges Savoie must be feeding his hens something special then:

https://www.georgessavoie.com/en/store/collets-zugspannzangen-2/product-1.html

John Haine14/09/2020 14:47:22
4428 forum posts
264 photos

If you visit **LINK** you can download a Schaublin catalogue which has a drawing of the P9 with dimensions on p31. Drawbar thread is actually M6 according to that. Floyd may be able to supply collets.

Greensands14/09/2020 15:20:28
287 forum posts
59 photos

It would appear that my particular Hauser might originally been intended to be used with the pull-up type Shaublin P9 collets but has since been anglicised and modified over the years to accept 1/4" diameter parallel shank cutters held in place with a simple grub screw. The change from a 6mm diameter drawbar bolt arrangement to a 1/4" BSF thread would be a very easy change to make and the holders again are a simple modification, the only complication being the angled shoulder. I understand that these small bench mounted Hausers were commonly used during WW2 for the quantity production of high precision parts which explains why they were equipped with hand operated levers and fitted with end stops. They are a beautifully made piece of equipment.

Stuart Harrison09/12/2020 20:22:44
9 forum posts
10 photos

I have nearly finished restoring my Hauser Type 33 Horizontal/Vertical mill. I purchased this mill in 1968 from an advertisement in 'Exchange and Mart'. It arrived as a rusty pile in an Ammunition box from an address in Woolwich and I assume it was from Woolwich Arsenal which ceased activities in 1967. A photocopy of a page in the Hauser catalogue accompanied the goods. The drawbar has a M9 x 1.25 mm female thread. I have made suitable collets of Schaublin W9 form wih these dimensions:- Body diameter 9 mm., Length 38.3 mm., max nose diameter 13.2 mm A photgraph is attached.

 

 

Edited By Stuart Harrison on 09/12/2020 20:27:08

Greensands09/12/2020 20:33:18
287 forum posts
59 photos

Hi Stuart - Any chance of a photo of the restored Hauser?

Stuart Harrison10/12/2020 09:25:33
9 forum posts
10 photos

Dear Greensands,

I have posted a photo of my mill in my album on this site. At the bottom of the photo you may notice the start of making the lateral carriage lever and one of my collets. The collet is a ER11 collet holder. The mill has provision for a counterweight below the table. I am making a table to hold the mill, my Schaublin 65 lathe and their accessories. My mill has some missing endstops; new ones are going to be cast in bronze. I have made the patterns allowing for shrinkage with my 3d printer.

Michael Gilligan10/12/2020 10:19:16
avatar
19599 forum posts
997 photos
Posted by Stuart Harrison on 10/12/2020 09:25:33:

Dear Greensands,

I have posted a photo of my mill in my album on this site. […]

.

Very nice too, Stuart

... and having viewed the rest of your Album, I will now rewind to 2011 yes

MichaelG.

John Hinkley10/12/2020 10:51:17
avatar
1218 forum posts
397 photos
Posted by DC31k on 14/09/2020 14:37:31:
Posted by Alexander Smith 1 on 14/09/2020 13:11:58:

...Schaublin P9 collet ...then hen's teeth are common in comparison

M. Georges Savoie must be feeding his hens something special then:

https://www.georgessavoie.com/en/store/collets-zugspannzangen-2/product-1.html

They are secondhand, though. So to be fair they should be called hen's dentures!

John

Alexander Smith 110/12/2020 14:21:46
44 forum posts
26 photos

I just love the image of a hen putting in her false teeth in the morning before she tackles something a bit tough! To be honest, I thought the fact that it took me several sessions on the Internet to find one supplier with a handful of second hand P9 collets qualified them as "rare as hen's' teeth" but no matter.

i'm in the process of rebuilding a pair of Hauser mills which came to me as a box of bits, essentially. I'll post some photos when I've done some painting but I think I can make one good one at least from the bits. What I am missing are the threaded end stops which regulate the movement of the laver action y slide. Seems to be just some threaded rod but measuring the bore of the slide end plate gives me 7mm with a .75 mm pitch thread so I assume that will correspond to an M8 x 0.75 thread. I've been looking all over for a supplier of this 8mm extra fine but can't find any. Lots of 8mm by 1.25 and 1.0 but no 0.75. A few suppliers list nuts this size but no threaded rod. Can anyone else with a Hauser mill confirm this is the thread and point me to a source or is this also "rare as hen's teeth?

Sandy

Stuart Harrison10/12/2020 20:28:50
9 forum posts
10 photos

I have placed a photograph of my Hauser endstops in my album. As seen in the photograph, I have three endstops for the slideways and one for the circular table, which means that I have to make three for the slideways and one for the circular table, The body of the Hauser endstops is a steel casting with a bronze threaded insert. The insert in the photo shows the square clamping pad which has to be cutout before the insert is fitted. The threads used by Hauser are: Slide endstop M8 x o.5 mm.

Circular table endstop M7 x 0.75 mm.

Clamping screw M4 x 0.70 mm.

Top adjusting screw M9 x 0.75 mm.

Spindle adjustment M18 x 1.0 mm.

Taps and dies are available for all of these theads at Tracey Tools.

Pete Rimmer10/12/2020 20:59:53
1127 forum posts
70 photos
Posted by Alexander Smith 1 on 14/09/2020 13:11:58:

I have a Hauser mill which takes the Shaublin P9 collet and looks suspiciously like ypurs( 9mm diameter and 2BA internal thread. If it is, then hen's teeth are common in comparison. I managed to find a couple from a French dealer. If anyone would like to dispose of any, let me know.

sandy

Shame that it's not P10 you're looking for Sandy as I have several dozen of those.

peak410/12/2020 22:31:24
avatar
1597 forum posts
172 photos

Sorry Wrong Thread

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 10/12/2020 22:32:11

Alexander Smith 112/12/2020 20:13:32
44 forum posts
26 photos

Apologies for the delay in getting back to thank people for responding but I wanted to get my thread gauge out and check things very carefully.

thanks for taking the time Stuart to measure all those threads. It's all tucked away for future use. The one that I can't make fit is the slide end stop which on yours is M8 x 0.5.but on mine fits better with M8 x 0.75 with my thread gauge. I can't find any studding that size or a bolt to try it but if all else fails I'll get a tap from Tracy. It's great that they have all these taps so thanks for that pointer.

Pete- thanks for thinking of me and a shame that yours are P10 rather than P9 - what uses a P10 collet?

I had a quick look at the French Savoie site where I got a couple of collets- it looks as though he no longer sells to the UK - BREXIT presumably.

thanks again to everyone Sandy

Oily Rag12/12/2020 20:39:43
avatar
529 forum posts
172 photos

As posted by Stuart Harrison:-

Circular table endstop M7 x 0.75 mm. ---- From Sidders book (Guide to World Screw Threads) this is a Swiss Series 'B' metric thread

Clamping screw M4 x 0.70 mm. ------------ ditto ----------- this is a Swiss Series 'Series 'A' metric thread

Top adjusting screw M9 x 0.75 mm. -------------ditto -------- this is a Swiss Series 'C' metric thread

Spindle adjustment M18 x 1.0 mm. ------------ditto ------------- this also is a Swiss Series 'C' thread

You will be heartened to know that the Swiss Metric Thread extends to 5 'series' (A, B, C, D, and E) for each nominal size (and boy, are there some weird sizes)

As has been mentioned before 'Metric' allows each nation to have its own standards'! So far I've counted over 20 variations of an M6 thread - but the Swiss are the winners with 6 variants, this is discounting the Bottle Closure threads, instrument bulb threads and such like.

Alexander Smith 115/12/2020 12:00:42
44 forum posts
26 photos

Cracked it! I was looking online last night for M8 x 0.75 bolts or something cheap to confirm that the end stop thread on my Hauser mill really was as I had measured and I kept getting ads for a small chuck to fit on the spindle of a Dremel or similar grinder. Off I went and after unscrewing the nose collet closer I had a perfect M8 x 0.75 threaded spindle which is a perfect fit for my end stops. I can only assume that Hauser used different threads in different models or different dates to explain the difference between mine and Stuart's. I also managed to finally find one supplier ba-bolts.co.uk who supply the appropriate threaded rod.

thanks to everyone for the help.

sandy

Pete Rimmer15/12/2020 12:53:39
1127 forum posts
70 photos
Posted by Alexander Smith 1 on 15/12/2020 12:00:42:

. I can only assume that Hauser used different threads in different models or different dates to explain the difference between mine and Stuart's.

sandy

I'm sure you are right Sandy as the only machine I have heard of that takes the P10 collets is also a Hauser.

Stuart Harrison16/12/2020 12:14:56
9 forum posts
10 photos

I posted details of the threads on my Hauser mill to assist Greensands and Alexandraeo Smith 1. Oily Rags contribution may have caused confusion. Hauser used different threads on their machines; the thread on the endstops of my circular table and slides are different. The following will explain why Alexander's purchased rod fits.

Prior to the eighteenth century screw threads for fasteners were mostly cut by hand but increasing demands deemed it necessary for them to be factory made. The lack of thread standardisation made fastener interchangeability problematical.

To overcome these problems Joseph Whitworth collected sample screws from a large number of British workshops and in 1841 put forward two proposals:
1. The angle the thread flanks should be standardised at 55 degrees.
2. The number of threads per inch should be standardised for various diameters.
His proposals became standard practice in Britain in the 1860's, so that ‘a nut made in Glasgow would fit a bolt made in Manchester’.

In 1864 in America, William Sellers independently proposed another standard based upon a 60 degree thread form and various thread pitches for different diameters. This became adopted as the U.S. Standard and subsequently developed into the American Standard Coarse Series (NC) and the Fine Series (NF). The thread form had flat roots and crests that made the screw easier to make than the Whitworth standard that has rounded roots and crests.

Around the same time metric thread standards were being adopted in continental Europe with a number of different thread flank angles being adopted. For example the German Löwenherz had a thread flank angle of 53 degrees 8 minutes and the Swiss Thury thread an angle of 47.5 degrees. The standard international metric thread (ISO 68-1:1998) eventually evolved from German, French and Swiss metric standards based upon a 60 degree flank angle with flat crests and rounded roots. The main differences between the early European standards was the shape and truncation of root and crest.

Since the introduction of thread standards large manufacturing companies have not always complied. A notable example is the pre-WWII Morris Motors bolts having metric threads and Whitworth form hexagonal heads! My Schaublin 65 lathe feedscrews have a diameter of 6.5 mm., 1 mm. pitch and 55̊ flank angle, which meant that I had to make my own tap when replacing the worn nuts. Therefore, when repairing or restoring old equipment it is essential to measure diameter and pitch of threads as well as examining their form. If the thread conforms, within tolerances to a standard then commercially available taps and dies can be utilised. I have posted a photograph comparing the Hauser thread to a ISO M8 x 0.75 mm. tap. This shows the threads to be similar within tolerance limits. I stated the Hauser threads in my post as standard ISO metric threads.

I have posted a photo of a relevant page in the English edition of the contemporary Hauser catalogue. These machines accommodated 10 mm diameter collets (0.393" = 9.98 mm.). The spindle on Greensands’, Alexander Smith I’s and mine, having a 9 mm. spindle were specially made for Woolwich Arsenal. I originally thought that I would make a new spindle for my machine so that I could use my extensive collection of Schaublin 10 mm collets but have now decided to bore out the Hauser spindle to 10 mm. If the spindle is made of case-hardened steel then the final finishing of the bore should not be too difficult to lap to the desired accuracy of concentricity and runout.

Wishing everone a quiet, safe and contented Christmas,

SH

Greensands16/12/2020 13:08:11
287 forum posts
59 photos

Hi Stuart - Interested to hear that the spindle of my Hauser may have been manufactured at Woolwich Arsenal. The tool holder illustrated at the top of the post is one of several I have made up to accept 1/4" shank endmills (and small slitting saws) and is a very easy way of overcoming the need to source 9mm collet chucks thanks to the nominal 40 deg taper. The photo shows the makers plate attached to my machine.

img_9241.jpg

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
JD Metals
emcomachinetools
Warco
Eccentric July 5 2018
MIDLNDS GARDEN RAIL Jan 2022
cowells
rapid Direct
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest