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Coal Supplies!!!!

DEFRA banning Coal burning from 2023

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Howard Lewis15/08/2020 13:33:15
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Do not want to start a hare running, but this sounds serious

The March/April issue of Steam Railway states that DEFRA will ban the sale of coal from 2023.

Although Heritage Railways and Traction Engines will be exempt, small quantities are unlikely to be available, so models may be affected.

The remaining coal mine fears that it may no longer be viable to operate.

What does anyone else know about this?

OR, being March/April is this an almighty wind up?

Howard

 

Edited By Howard Lewis on 15/08/2020 13:33:35

Edited By Howard Lewis on 15/08/2020 13:37:13

JasonB15/08/2020 13:37:58
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Probably the same as they did in this long thread a few months ago

Baz15/08/2020 14:35:22
450 forum posts

Don’t see as it matters, unless we all get a vaccine for Covid19 we won’t be burning any!

Howard Lewis15/08/2020 14:47:38
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Have just looked on the DEFRA website, and on about page 9, it does look as if sales of pre-packaged coal through retail outlets will be banned in a couple of years or so.

So not a total wind up!

Baz, we probably will survive.

In UK, so far, reported Covid deaths represent about 3/4 of 1% of the population, and the 7 day average rate is slowly falling.

Howard

Bazyle15/08/2020 15:40:22
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As I understand it coke is not banned (aka smokeless coal) and is wuite good for steam raising.

Nick Clarke 315/08/2020 15:57:56
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Posted by Bazyle on 15/08/2020 15:40:22:

As I understand it coke is not banned (aka smokeless coal) and is quite good for steam raising.

Much smokeless fuel is made from anthracite and petroleum coke rather than just coke which on its own is expensive and has a poorer heat output than coal. The ratio is often 3 or 4 times as much anthracite as coke. A full list of smokeless fuels is on the Defra website already mentioned.

John MC15/08/2020 16:26:38
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I heat my house with coal so I hope there is nothing in this story!

I moved to solid fuel because of the unreliability of previous gas boilers and have been monitoring costs carefully knowing full well it was likely to cost more. Its cost me, as near as I can tell, about 10% a year more than gas in fuel costs. Certainly much cheaper than with gas if I factor in the maintenance costs and, regrettably, the repair costs.

In the near future gas installations in new build homes will stop due to legislation, but gas supplies will be with us for along time yet, as will (smokeless) coal.

John

SillyOldDuffer15/08/2020 18:06:53
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Bagged household coal withdrawn from sale next February, and loose coal delivered by Coal Merchants from Feb 2023.

As the law applies to England only, we'll be able to bootleg hot coals in from Scotland. All that's necessary to evade police helicopters is to paint a confederate flag on the roof of your car. The Dukes of Hazzard got away with it for 147 episodes! Daisy Duke is 66 years of age...

smiley

Dave

Bazyle15/08/2020 18:26:23
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Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 15/08/2020 15:57:56:.

Much smokeless fuel is made from anthracite and petroleum coke rather than just coke

My mother and I used 'Coalite' for about 50 years until I put in a wood burner after she died. Does not have anthracite in it and it is consistent in its make up. It is plain carbon without the volatiles so should be nice and clean burning in a loco. I haven't used it on its own as I use a mix of steam coal (from a delivery we got in about '62) and coke dregs in the bottom of the coal shed. The tiny bits that were too tedious to pick into the coal scuttle have built up to a pile that will last me out.

Ian McVickers15/08/2020 18:34:09
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I understood it to mean natural coal products. The man made stuff is still being sold.

John MC16/08/2020 12:20:05
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Coal can be loosely grouped as hard and soft, its the soft stuff thats being banned. Hard coal, anthracite is okay for burning. Interestingly my modern solid fuel central heating boiler is A rated when burning anthracite.

Wood for burning needs to be properly dried to comply with the regulations, moisture content less than 20% I believe.

Some of the posts here come across as tabloid sensationalism. Next it will be petrol sales to be banned from 2023!

John

SillyOldDuffer16/08/2020 15:52:13
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Posted by John MC on 16/08/2020 12:20:05:

...

anthracite is okay for burning...

Next it will be petrol sales to be banned from 2023!

John

Sadly anthracite is not ok for burning. New times, new realities. Climate change and diminishing resources are the threat, not low particulates.

"Government is seeking views on bringing forward the end to the sale of new petrol, diesel and hybrid cars and vans from 2040 to 2035, or earlier if a faster transition appears feasible."

Althoughinternal combustion is on the way out, perhaps petrol sales will never be banned. More likely the average Joe won't need or afford petrol, and it will become a niche product like Welsh Steam Coal.

The world is completely different from when I was little, and I'm not the first to notice the times they are a changing. An elderly neighbour liked to tell me of his youth at Barry Docks when it was the largest coal exporting port in the world. His sense of disbelief that something so big, successful and important could end in his lifetime stuck with me. Nothing is permanent. My grandmother's world was full of horses and trams. All gone.

Dave

Mike Poole16/08/2020 16:57:42
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Remember when North Sea gas would be the fuel for the future? Then fusion power? We have used the gas and fusion is still on its way if it does ever arrive. We are in a headlong rush to convert to electric vehicles but I seriously doubt that the earth can supply the materials for the batteries for a world fleet of cars. We need a serious plan and not lots of disjointed bits and pieces, we are covering good farmland with solar panels, are we mad?

Mike

JA16/08/2020 17:36:18
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If there is a demand coal will be available. All the government can do is to reduce the demand. For example although leaded petrol is banned it was, and probably still is, available at selected filling stations.

I would love to agree with you Mike but this country, like most others, has never successfully planned for the future.

JA

John MC16/08/2020 18:55:10
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I am going to disagree, sort of, with SOD, at the moment and for a few years yet it is okay to burn anthracite, the government say so! Then on to ground source heat pump for me, probably, if I'm still here.

But I agree with the point that nothing stays the same. If, a few years ago, I told myself in 2020/21 I would be considering some form of hybrid or gone back to petrol from diesel for my daily driver I would have not believed me.

John

Howard Lewis16/08/2020 20:59:47
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To begin with, I feared that this was an April Fool wind up.

But if you study the DEFRA site, sales of coal from shops, supermarkets etc,(i.e small quantities ) will be banned.

Presumably in support of reducing Britain's carbon footprint, without enraging too many vested interests.

So loco and road engine modellers may need to keep in contact with their full size users and hope to catch, possibly literally, the crumbs that fall from their table.

Looks like there are under two years to find sources of coal for "non heritage" users.

Howard

SillyOldDuffer16/08/2020 21:32:24
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Posted by Howard Lewis on 16/08/2020 20:59:47:

...

Presumably in support of reducing Britain's carbon footprint, without enraging too many vested interests.

...

Howard

The reason given is:

'Wood burning stoves and coal fires are the single largest source of the pollutant ‘PM2.5’, emitting twice the contribution of industrial combustion and three times the contribution of road transport. This form of pollution consists of tiny particles which penetrate deeply into our body, including lungs and blood, and has been identified by the World Health Organisation as the most serious air pollutant for human health.'

Particulates.

Anyone else remember old-fashioned smog? My dad got us lost in a Bath suburb due to not realising he'd come off the main road whilst crawling along the kerb. Coal fires in a city in a valley subject to temperature inversions caused a yellow fog so thick you couldn't see street lights. Sour taste that left cars and windows smeared in blackish grease. All the buildings were black. Filthy.

Dave

Robert Atkinson 216/08/2020 22:29:20
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Don't get me started on wood burning stoves. Either through ignorance or selfishness many people mis-use them, burning green wood, painted wood, chipboard and rubbish. This causes terrible local polution especially for those with respiritory problems.

Robert G8RPI

V8Eng16/08/2020 23:38:03
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Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 16/08/2020 22:29:20:

Don't get me started on wood burning stoves. Either through ignorance or selfishness many people mis-use them, burning green wood, painted wood, chipboard and rubbish. This causes terrible local polution especially for those with respiritory problems.

Robert G8RPI


Many of my trendy neighbours have wood burners in their houses and I am surrounded by the fumes most winters!

Having spent my school years in London with dreaded smogs the last thing I need is more pollution in later life.

Edited By V8Eng on 16/08/2020 23:40:35

Keith Wyles17/08/2020 14:02:35
35 forum posts

Isn't it just a matter of purchasing sufficient coal, while you still can, to last for many years?

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