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Cup grinder application

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Derek Lane12/08/2020 10:16:45
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I have an old but working Clarke CBG8W Whetstone Grinder and wonder if I could fit either a diamond cup wheel or a stone style to this as all the ones I have looked at don't seem to put the speed recommended.

The grinder has two speeds the main grinder and the one for the wet stone.

I don't need either of these as I have a double-ended record bench grinder as well as a record wet grinder(used for carpentry chisels and planer blades)

What I will be using it for is a dedicated drill sharpening set up as I am not keen on using the others for this task as it means using the side of the wheels.

Any thoughts on this.

If I do not reply straight away please forgive me in advance as of this moment my 96year old mother is on palliative care and I may get bad news at any time not that I want it. So please bear with me

 

Edited By Derek Lane on 12/08/2020 10:20:11

Clive Foster12/08/2020 10:58:52
2317 forum posts
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Go for it. Nice white wheel will give much better results than the side of an ordinary grey wheel. Especially compared with the standard budget wheel found on most affordable grinders which are, for obvious reasons, made more to be safe when mishandled by the inexperienced DIY folk than to give wonderful results for the more experienced.

A narrow white cup wheel worked fine on my old (cheap) Whitcote double ended grinder for drill and tool sharpening duties for many years until I got my Clarkson T&C grinder.

I added a spindle extension to the Clarkson to take one of these relatively inexpensive Axminster wide white wheels **LINK** for drill grinding duties. I'm well pleased with the results. Unfortunately out of stock for the next couple of weeks.

I bought an inexpensive wide table to fit alongside the wheel face to handle lathe tools and provide a rest for the diamond dresser. Made it quick detachable so pulling the Picador sharpener out of its mount provided space for the table. Table angle adjustable in the usual way. Unfortunately the one I got is no longer sold and current versions are (unnecessarily for this job) improved with commensurate price tags.

I'd seriously consider hollow grinding your lathe tools on the periphery of your existing grey wheel, using appropriate spacers to set the tool height correct for the right angle, with a final touch up on the white wheel for a really nice edge. Probably get around five touch ups before reshaping the hollow grind.

Clive

Ronald Morrison12/08/2020 11:38:15
30 forum posts

Select the white wheel instead of the diamond unless you are only grinding carbide or are using it in a low speed grinder. When using diamond for grinding steel where the steel will become hot the diamond (pure carbon for practical purposes) can dissolve into the steel increasing its carbon content but leaving little cutting action from the diamond.

peak412/08/2020 14:29:02
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1153 forum posts
135 photos
Posted by Clive Foster on 12/08/2020 10:58:52:

................

I added a spindle extension to the Clarkson to take one of these relatively inexpensive Axminster wide white wheels **LINK** for drill grinding duties. I'm well pleased with the results. Unfortunately out of stock for the next couple of weeks.

...............

Clive

I was looking at those a little while ago, but currently been out of stock for some time, though I signed up for a re-stock update ages ago.
Unfortunately there's no actual spec for them on the web site.

Is there anything actually written on the wheel label please?

I'm thinking max RPM, and the actual grit size, bond etc. e.g. A46K7V

Thanks

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 12/08/2020 14:30:16

Clive Foster12/08/2020 15:26:16
2317 forum posts
76 photos

Bill

Nothing useful on the packing as I recall but stencilled on the back 80() and 35 m/s.

Pretty much the legal minimum of data. 35 m/s translates to around 5,000 rpm and 80 looks right for the grit size in comparison to my other wheels. Wear rate is low so probably pretty dense. Comparing again maybe K7V.

I plan to make a drill sharpener device able to handle MT3 shank drills, say up to 1 1/4" so I wanted a wider wheel. Undecided whether to use one of the £100(ish), 4" Ø, 6 jaw chucks off E-Bay which have a usefully larger bore than the standard one to make a bigger version of the Clarkson device or to go mechanically crude with a simple 4 facet device.

Clive

Derek Lane12/08/2020 15:41:35
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335 forum posts
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Thank you all for the input looks like a white cup wheel would be the option.

peak412/08/2020 15:48:46
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1153 forum posts
135 photos

Cheers Clive,

I was looking to use one of these wheels on the little Herbert Junior I've just reassembled, again for drill sharpening, but probably with a reliance jig.

I did notice that some of the Chinese origin 6 jaw chucks have the long tapered, rather than stepped jaws, which might make them quite suitable for your Clarkson idea. I think they are Sanou K13, 

I was looking at K13s for a different purpose, but none seem available with external jaws.

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 12/08/2020 15:56:24

Clive Foster12/08/2020 17:18:55
2317 forum posts
76 photos

Bill

Yep, Sanou K13, 4" diameter has the long taper jaws and 32 mm ( 1 1/4" ) nominal bore.

If you only want to do standard drill points the Clarkson device simplifies to a pivot axis and rotational axis with crossing centrelines on a mounting post. Plus indexing device and a pressure spring to ensure you don't graunch everything up. All very do-able. Mr Clarksons, or rather Mr March, way of doing four facets is way too involved tho'. Not so sure about point thinning as its not something I bother with.

At £100 to £150 off E-Bay the Sanou chuck makes proper drill holding affordable if you are fed up enough to get serious about things. If its concentric of course.

Absolutely no comparison between the Clarkson drill sharpener and any of the swing across jigs or other devices. Within its range it just does it right every time so long as you don't cock up the settiing. 1/2" stick out and cutting edge level. Who could get that wrong! (Brer Rabbit he said Nuffink). Its the permanent set up on mine. Cycle time from "damn, drill's blunt" to "luverlly jubberly" about 90 seconds!

Clive

peak412/08/2020 19:52:48
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1153 forum posts
135 photos

Clive, not wishing to drag Derek's post too far off topic, but I was trying to find a K13 from a UK supplier like Chronos, but they, and others, only seem to sell the K12-4 jaw.
It is available on Amazon, but again ships from the far east.

Have you seen any designs around for a Clarkson style of the type you're thinking of?
By all means continue the discussion on a thread I started ages ago, to save swamping Derek's post.

Bill

Clive Foster12/08/2020 20:28:46
2317 forum posts
76 photos

Bill

I've just got a 100 mm K13 from E-Bay **LINK** which purports to be from UK. Says last one.

Moving to your other thread for Clarkson discussions.

Clive

Derek Lane12/08/2020 20:42:15
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335 forum posts
75 photos
Posted by Ronald Morrison on 12/08/2020 11:38:15:

Select the white wheel instead of the diamond unless you are only grinding carbide or are using it in a low speed grinder. When using diamond for grinding steel where the steel will become hot the diamond (pure carbon for practical purposes) can dissolve into the steel increasing its carbon content but leaving little cutting action from the diamond.

I could use a diamond on this machine as it has one grey wheel running at full grinder speed and a larger wheel running much slower which is for wet grinding. In which case I could run a diamond on the slow side and a white cup wheel on the higher speed side.

My next problem would be where to put it as three grinders in my small workshop could be a bit tight as it is only a 12' X 8' Shed it has got to the point that my two woodworking bandsaws now live in another shed.wink

peak412/08/2020 22:15:04
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1153 forum posts
135 photos
Posted by Derek Lane on 12/08/2020 20:42:15:

I could use a diamond on this machine as it has one grey wheel running at full grinder speed and a larger wheel running much slower which is for wet grinding. In which case I could run a diamond on the slow side and a white cup wheel on the higher speed side.

My next problem would be where to put it as three grinders in my small workshop could be a bit tight as it is only a 12' X 8' Shed it has got to the point that my two woodworking bandsaws now live in another shed.wink

If two of your grinders are the same, or similar, how about bolting them together, either side of a flip over shelf. That way it will only take up the worktop space of one, with the other stored hidden underneath, but without the need to fetch one from storage and swap them over.


Bill

Derek Lane12/08/2020 22:23:47
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335 forum posts
75 photos
Posted by peak4 on 12/08/2020 22:15:04:
Posted by Derek Lane on 12/08/2020 20:42:15:

I could use a diamond on this machine as it has one grey wheel running at full grinder speed and a larger wheel running much slower which is for wet grinding. In which case I could run a diamond on the slow side and a white cup wheel on the higher speed side.

My next problem would be where to put it as three grinders in my small workshop could be a bit tight as it is only a 12' X 8' Shed it has got to the point that my two woodworking bandsaws now live in another shed.wink

If two of your grinders are the same, or similar, how about bolting them together, either side of a flip over shelf. That way it will only take up the worktop space of one, with the other stored hidden underneath, but without the need to fetch one from storage and swap them over.


Bill

I have thought about that but then where would I put the stuff in the cupboard belowlaughlaughlaugh talk about a workshop jammed full of so much stuff. I need a bigger workshop maybe santa will bring me one later in the year

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