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Hole for Morse Taper

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Chris TickTock08/08/2020 17:41:40
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Hi, I wish to hold a 8mm collet in a piece of hex aluminium bar, 5 inches long for indexing purposes. The collet has a morse #1 taper how do I go about it, any ideas?

Chris

JasonB08/08/2020 17:53:28
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Does it really need to be 5" long? If you cut it in half it would make subsequent machining a lot easier and also more practical in use when holding your collet block vertically. Also what is the A/F of your hex stock?

Chris TickTock08/08/2020 18:03:52
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Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 17:53:28:

Does it really need to be 5" long? If you cut it in half it would make subsequent machining a lot easier and also more practical in use when holding your collet block vertically. Also what is the A/F of your hex stock?

Jason, 5 inches is a rough guide . my initial uses are to hold steady on a bench sander in my hands the hex aluminium holding the collet holding the pivot wire I wish to form edges on my bench tool for either drilling or reeming. Difficult if under a couple of inches and I need ideally to use a bolt to tighten the collet on the stock so I guess a min 3.5 inches. Collets are expensive so starting point is full length of a collet which are 1.5 inches but i suspect the taper will need to be held in a parallel adapter inside the hex aluminium.

Chris

JasonB08/08/2020 18:07:57
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Chris just to be sure are you asking about the Sherline collet adaptor for 8mm or WW type collets or an 8mm MT1 collet

Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:15:00

SillyOldDuffer08/08/2020 18:32:37
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Like a giant Pin Vice? (Example from RDG holds up to 3mm)

Dave

Chris TickTock08/08/2020 18:38:43
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Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:07:57:

Chris just to be sure are you asking about the Sherline collet adaptor for 8mm or WW type collets or an 8mm MT1 collet

Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 18:15:00

Yes my fault, sorry these are Sherline WW and not 8mm watchmakers spec.

I refer you to: https://www.sherline.com/product/11601178-ww-collet-set/

The collets fit inside a plastic adapter and a bolt tightens everything up. However the point I think is that the plastic adapter goes into the MT1. I will go and measure the shanks on the lathe collets to see if they are straight or tapered. They may be straight? I will get back to you.

update

The collet shanks are indeed  straight and it is the metal (notplastic) adpter which fits in the MT1. The torque from the bolt holds the collet steady. the lathe Sherline WW collets measure at 7.9mm across their shank.

Chris

 

Edited By Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:48:28

Edited By Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:48:41

Howard Lewis08/08/2020 18:46:31
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Don't know the collet that you are using, but if it is an open ended one:

Does the holder have be Aluminium/?

If not, you could buy a parallel socket with an internal 1 MT. You would need to modify it (Drill/Tap the blank end? ) and insert a plug, before fitting the collet, so that a screw could be used to push out the collet, when you wish to release / extract it.

As an example, Arc Euro sell such sleeves for a little over £10 + postage. Choose 3/4 or 1 inch OD.

Admittedly, this would limit the length of material that could be passed back through the collet, but this same problem exists with Morse Taper ER collet holder, and Morse Taper and R8 collets used with a drawbar..

Just a thought

Howard

Chris TickTock08/08/2020 19:00:54
563 forum posts
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Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 08/08/2020 18:32:37:

Like a giant Pin Vice? (Example from RDG holds up to 3mm)

Dave

Embarrassing to miss the obvious..good idea Dave. Maybe the collet would hold the stock better though. All i need to do is to drill a 7.9mm hole with a chamfer at the start and the bolt will tighten all up well. I will however play with the pin vice, might save some work.

chris

Chris

Michael Gilligan08/08/2020 19:05:21
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Posted by Chris TickTock on 08/08/2020 18:38:43:

.

…  these are Sherline WW and not 8mm watchmakers spec.

I refer you to: https://www.sherline.com/product/11601178-ww-collet-set/

[…]

.

Chris,

WW stands for Webster Whitcomb ... which is the standard for American watchmakers’ lathes.

MichaelG.

.

See. http://fwderbyshire.com/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/08/2020 19:13:45

JasonB08/08/2020 19:36:44
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My thoughts

1. Aluminium will soon dent and ding so not an ideal surface to be indexing against especially once you have been rubbing it about on stray abrasive from your sander.

2. Aluminium may gall resulting in the adaptor sticking and the drawbar roughing up the end unless additional washers are used.

For these two reasons I would go with steel.

3. Why add the added possible runout of an adaptor when you could machine a socket to take the WW collets directly, these need both taper and parallel surfaces. Much smaller hole required so more Sherline friendly

4. As the WW collets have an external thread how will a bolt work to tighten them, you need a drawbar with a female thread or ideally a draw tube so you can hold long lengths of pivot wire etc which is better than holding stub ends.

This thread may be useful, just make them longer and use a drawtube rather than nut

If you still want to go down the aluminium/ MT1 route then just bore it out parallel and Loctite in one of these.

 

Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 19:41:06

JasonB08/08/2020 19:46:41
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These may be easier with the added spindle nose thread thrown in.

JasonB08/08/2020 20:25:31
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Giving it a bit mor ethought and bearing in mind the small scale work Chris want to do eg clock making/repair and the general small size of his machines I think I would go for something like this.

ww collet blocks.jpg

Square and hex collet block to take the WW collets directly which could be 16mm A/F and length to leave the collet's thread exposed at the back much like Phil's 10mm collet blocks.

For hand held use the "draw tube" can take the form of a handle, if made the same dia as the block's A/F it will not cause the block to tilt when resting on the sander table etc and can also be used as a nice hand vice. A nut can also be made which would be less cumbersome if the blocks were being held in the milling vice and a larger diameter one could also be made to act as a stop much like this Levin one.

keeping the actual blocks separate will make them easier to machine on the Sherline and you don't need as much material if the handle and nuts are interchangable.

Edited By JasonB on 08/08/2020 20:26:06

Martin Connelly09/08/2020 08:57:27
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Smart & Brown collet blocks. An example of what Jason is suggesting.

img_20200809_084955.jpg

Martin C

Chris TickTock09/08/2020 09:19:59
563 forum posts
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Thank you to all for posting, I have loads of info to progress this now from your posts.

Chris

Chris TickTock09/08/2020 09:22:42
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Posted by JasonB on 08/08/2020 19:46:41:

These may be easier with the added spindle nose thread thrown in.

Funny enough Jason I got these last week, not yet investigated...might be the time to do so.

Chris

JasonB09/08/2020 10:12:40
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Just use them and make a longer handle for the drawbar if you are worried about getting fingers too close to sander.

Michael Gilligan09/08/2020 12:13:38
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Posted by JasonB on 09/08/2020 10:12:40:

.

Just use them ...

.

yes

MichaelG.

Chris TickTock09/08/2020 14:26:52
563 forum posts
39 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/08/2020 12:13:38:
Posted by JasonB on 09/08/2020 10:12:40:

.

Just use them ...

.

yes

MichaelG.

Yes indeed, just ordered a reduced draw bolt needed. Had to brush up on collets supplied by Sherline. Sherline collets come in 2 basic types. For the lathe made to WW spec and use an adapter which sits inside the MT1. For the mill these are different and just pull up inside the MT1 directly.

Chris

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