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Cup Final crowds celebrate

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Danny M2Z02/08/2020 10:41:55
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871 forum posts
283 photos

I watched the Cup Final here in Australia.

All was well in the stadium with limited spectators, social distancing and the North London team won (although I am a Hammers supporter

But what I saw next astounded me, the pictures of supporters outside the stadium, crowded together and hardly a mask in sight, Social Distancing?

What was the point of banning them from the stadium in the first place if this is how people are behaving?

It only takes one infected person to spread Covid-19, just like it only took one person who liked bat soup to infect most of the planet and kill over 1/2 million people so far.

I really am amazed about how irresponsible some people can behave.

* Danny M *

Peter G. Shaw02/08/2020 10:48:16
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Danny,

I agree totally with your comments, but could I ask just what's going on in Victoria? The reports I have seen say that a state of Disaster has been declared which seems rather extreme.

Peter G. Shaw

Hopper02/08/2020 11:10:58
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4658 forum posts
101 photos

Victoria had it almost down to zero cases then it flared up to 600 new cases a day so brought back lockdown.

The Victorian government screwed it up by hiring untrained contract security guards from a labour hire agency and putting them in charge of a hotel full of overseas arrivals in isolation. The guards socialised with the inmates, got infected and took covid19 home to their large families living in crowded public housing high rises. Now it's running wild all over town.

Breathtaking incompetence.

Edited By Hopper on 02/08/2020 11:12:07

Edited By Hopper on 02/08/2020 11:13:41

Bo'sun02/08/2020 11:12:56
153 forum posts

On the subject of China and Covid 19, the Panorama programme "China's Corona Virus Cover-up" is well worth a look at. China have a lot to answer for.

Danny M2Z02/08/2020 11:28:10
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871 forum posts
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Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 02/08/2020 10:48:16:

Danny,

I agree totally with your comments, but could I ask just what's going on in Victoria? The reports I have seen say that a state of Disaster has been declared which seems rather extreme.

Peter G. Shaw

A good question Peter.

The outbreak here in Victoria appears in clusters, many of which are in areas of Melbourne which are populated by people of low social-economic income so they have to work to earn an income to feed their families and pay their rent and thus they attend work, even if feeling a bit unwell.

Also, many of the infected people are health care workers and transient staff of aged care facilities who travel between various aged care centres. As their work is 'casual' they cannot claim sickness benefits so possibly they spread the virus, A t least our government has woken up to this one and offered compensation for these people to stay at home for 14 days.

Also abattoir workers seem susceptible as they work close together in a humid atmosphere for long hours

Next are the stupid, totally irresponsible people who flout all the rules Virus spreading teens in Australia

I hope that they get a spell in gaol, in solitary confinement. Not only to protect the other prisoners but to protect themselve from what the other prisoners might do to them.

My little part of N.E. Vic is pretty virus free at the moment. I live just 600m from the NSW border but noway can I obtain a pass to go shopping in Albury (15 Km trip). From tomorrow, if I want to go shopping in Wodonga (25 Km trip) I have to wear a face mask to shop.

As Ned Kelly said just before the trapdoor opened under his feet "Such is life"

Our premier is desperate to clamp down on this pandemic which is rapidly getting out of control so he has really tightened the noose. In Melbourne, ony 1 person per household permitted to shop wityhin a 5 Km radius of their home with a night-time curfew on any movement.

* Danny M *

Dave Halford02/08/2020 11:34:40
806 forum posts
8 photos

The crowd issue is a simple one.

When covid was just a dose of flu the 20 to 30 something age group were told they would hardly be affected. A year earlier they were told they had to work till 70 to support the current crop of retired old scroungers.

Put the two together and they see it as a win win. The English Covid resurgence has been recognised as being driven by this age group.

Bazyle02/08/2020 12:15:26
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5296 forum posts
201 photos

Thanks for the updates - i'm getting nothing from my nephew who works at La Trobe, well at home a mile south.

As I write the radio news has just mentioned police breaking up a rave last night - more teenage trouble. But seaside venues are a problem too at the moment with a rare burst of sunshine in the south west of England. (but mostly raining whrere I am)

SillyOldDuffer02/08/2020 12:41:21
5942 forum posts
1282 photos
Posted by Bo'sun on 02/08/2020 11:12:56:

On the subject of China and Covid 19, the Panorama programme "China's Corona Virus Cover-up" is well worth a look at. China have a lot to answer for.

Never mind China's botched response, we can't do anything about their stupid politicians.

As of yesterday the worst performing country in the world is the USA (157,898 deaths), and the worst performing country in Europe is the UK (46,193). Why? If it's because the UK and USA have both been stuffed up by the Chinese, why is it that so many other countries have done better. Are we particularly stupid?

Not so. When disasters occur, we're far too quick to blame foreigners. It's so easy. Admitting when misfortunes are our own fault is much too painful. Too early, but I think the Covid Enquiry will reveal UK government made many mistakes, and it's bleeding obvious from this side of the Atlantic that things could have been done much better in the US. Understandable why Brazil, Mexico, and other South American countries are all struggling, quite worrying that the world's richest country is bottom of the league.

I feel democracies are too inclined to elect in line with right or left leanings when voters should be calling incompetent politicians of either party to account. Don't vote for promises of a future right or left wing nirvana, reward success and punish failure in the last parliament instead. They'll blunder again unless you stop them.

The COVID pandemic is a good test of government competence because Coronavirus is apolitical. No amount of political guff will shift it. It's not in a Union and it doesn't read the Daily Mail. Of course, if you're an underperforming politician, really good idea to tell gullible voters it was all down to outsiders. Much safer than admitting it was a cock-up. Basically, a big boy did it and ran away. Nothing to do with me guv, I was busy running the country.

Nice example from President Obama. After Deepwater Horizon, he persistently talked of British Petroleum, despite that not being the actual name of the oil multinational BP, and conveniently not mentioning the role of BP America Inc. An accident on an American Oil-rig, caused by American subcontractors under American Management, and covered by US Law? No problem - blame the British.

Private sector isn't any better. I expect most engineers have worked on failed projects that ended in a flurry of blaming the innocent and promoting the guilty!

Dave

blowlamp02/08/2020 12:51:47
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1376 forum posts
85 photos

For anyone open to another view. This is what front line doctors think:

I can't see why people prefer the opinion of politicians over medical professionals.

I see from the pictures that the teams aren't distanced either

 

 

Edited By blowlamp on 02/08/2020 12:54:09

Edited By blowlamp on 02/08/2020 12:54:45

Edited By blowlamp on 02/08/2020 12:57:07

JA02/08/2020 13:17:13
937 forum posts
51 photos

I am surprised that COVID19 infection has remained low in England recently given crowded breaches, demonstrations, raves and the inability of pub landlords to control crowds.

I realise I do not understand this. Have our politicians got things right? Is herd immunity working? Are more than 95% of the population behaving sensibly. Does a-systematic (if that is how one spells it) infection exist?

I have to say that the amount of anti-science feeling is terrifying particularly in the States.

JA

martin perman02/08/2020 13:28:26
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1835 forum posts
78 photos

Regardless of what country, religion, political leaning and who to blame this Virus is going to be with us "world wise" well into next year so we just need to abide by the rules and get on with it, bickering about it wont solve anything.

Martin P

duncan webster02/08/2020 13:49:42
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2655 forum posts
36 photos
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2020 12:41:21:

.........As of yesterday the worst performing country in the world is the USA (157,898 deaths), and the worst performing country in Europe is the UK (46,193). ........

population of USA 327 millions, so deaths per million is 483

population of UK 66 million, so deaths per million is 700.

Looks like UK is far and away worse than USA, and the worst in the western world. Our PM is always telling us we are world beating, for once it appears he's right

J Hancock02/08/2020 13:55:43
420 forum posts

For sure these are the ' interesting times ' the Chinese curse referred to.

As I see it, it is just a race to see whether the Magic Money tree, or the Virus dies first.

Dear old Geronimo had it summed up with his, " When you've eaten everything else, eat your money ".

Peter G. Shaw02/08/2020 14:11:03
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1121 forum posts
44 photos

Danny,

Thanks for that.

-------------------

For myself, I find myself in a very strange situation. As someone who is clinically vulnerable and in my late 70's what do I do? Do I follow the crowd and ignore it? Or do I follow the government instructions? The former looks set to likely kill me, whilst the latter might not. And all the while knowing that whatever I do, my time is drawing to an end anyway.

But it's worse than that. How do I persuade other people with whom I have contact to take care to protect me? They have their own views, which I perhaps don't agree with, just as I have my views. It is a minefield and unlike some of the people whose comments I read (elsewhere by the way), I know I have insufficient knowledge to be able to make a reasoned decision.

My personal opinion is that there is a large number of very selfish people around who either through ignorance or maybe even deliberately, who simply do not care about other people, just as long as they are not inconvenienced. It also seems that there is another group of people who through force of circumstances are unable to follow whatever guidelines are being issued and this is in turn leading to these spikes.

In short, it's a mess.

Peter G. Shaw

Ady102/08/2020 14:19:20
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3741 forum posts
519 photos

In 4months it's killed a million folk

In 4 months the global population increased by 25-30 million folk

We're still winning by a huge margin even if it can kill 30 million folk a year

Darwinism only cares about the numbers

Edited By Ady1 on 02/08/2020 14:21:16

blowlamp02/08/2020 14:51:46
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1376 forum posts
85 photos

Shame there's not a test for gullibility.

blowlamp02/08/2020 14:58:15
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1376 forum posts
85 photos

At least Lynn understands.

Harry Wilkes02/08/2020 15:14:18
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932 forum posts
61 photos
Posted by Dave Halford on 02/08/2020 11:34:40:

The crowd issue is a simple one.

When covid was just a dose of flu the 20 to 30 something age group were told they would hardly be affected. A year earlier they were told they had to work till 70 to support the current crop of retired old scroungers.

Put the two together and they see it as a win win. The English Covid resurgence has been recognised as being driven by this age group.

Grow up !!!!!!!

SillyOldDuffer02/08/2020 15:19:34
5942 forum posts
1282 photos
Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 02/08/2020 14:11:03:

Danny,

Thanks for that.

-------------------

For myself, I find myself in a very strange situation. As someone who is clinically vulnerable and in my late 70's what do I do? Do I follow the crowd and ignore it? Or do I follow the government instructions? The former looks set to likely kill me, whilst the latter might not. And all the while knowing that whatever I do, my time is drawing to an end anyway.

But it's worse than that. How do I persuade other people with whom I have contact to take care to protect me? They have their own views, which I perhaps don't agree with, just as I have my views. It is a minefield and unlike some of the people whose comments I read (elsewhere by the way), I know I have insufficient knowledge to be able to make a reasoned decision.

My personal opinion is that there is a large number of very selfish people around who either through ignorance or maybe even deliberately, who simply do not care about other people, just as long as they are not inconvenienced. It also seems that there is another group of people who through force of circumstances are unable to follow whatever guidelines are being issued and this is in turn leading to these spikes.

In short, it's a mess.

Peter G. Shaw

Good questions. First a recap. Covid-19 is a moderately infectious virus with serious consequences for about 5% of those who catch it. It appears most dangerous to those with pre-existing medical conditions, and maybe certain genetic backgrounds. All hospital care is palliative - including putting people into an induced coma and leaving them on a ventilator for a month while they recover. Or not. Antibiotics have no effect.

Unfortunately the disease isn't completely predictable. Usually, recovering from a virus confers future immunity. There are hints that immunity to Covid-19 doesn't last, ie it may be possible to catch it again. If true, there is more trouble to come. Also unknown is how long the Pandemic will last. Many pandemics flare-up, die-down and then disappear with 3 to 6 months. Covid-19 may not be typical, for example the much more serious 1918 Influenza Pandemic came in 3 separate waves. It appears that Europe and the USA may both be starting a second surge at the moment. Or perhaps it's a glitch - I don't think anyone knows for certain.

As there is no vaccine or cure the best strategy is to avoid contact with other people, hence lock-downs, closing borders, masks and 2 metre distancing. This is rather easy for retired people to do unless they require care. Much harder for the working population and children to isolate. The spikes are unlikely to be due to Raves and other foolish behaviour, more by increased normal contact in any town or city.

As the lock-down is expensive, and damage to the economy extensive, the government is keen to get back to normal as quickly as possible. Their strategy has been to lift the lock-down nationally and react to local outbreaks, as happened this week in West Yorkshire. The need for a local clamp-down is decided by the R-number (infection rate), which must be kept below 1.0 In my area, no lock-down yet, but the R-rate has risen above 0.9 so it might happen. Advice on gov.uk may already be wrong for my area, and government policy may shift again. If R goes over 1.0 nationally, expect another full lock-down. I predicted wrongly that the epidemic would end in the UK late June / early July. Wrong! Although the figures are much better, they may be bouncing back, possibly leading to trouble in the winter.

What's going on in the rest of the world is cause for concern; whilst Covid may have peaked in the UK, it continues to spread across the whole globe. It seems impossible to avoid a long trade-depression.

Communicating clearly what the population needs to do is a major problem for government. The rules and guidelines are far from clear because they vary by place and time; they need the population to behave sensibly, but are responsible for providing the facts. Credibility has been lost due to the antics of Mr Dominic Cummings and others, plus news UK figures are inaccurate due to a mix of collection problems and a desire for a positive spin. Everyone I know is completely fed up with the whole thing, and discipline is starting to slip, even if people have heard the latest. As Peter says, it's a mess.

For my part it's easy. I'm distancing by at least 2 metres and have no intention of taking risks whatever the government say. Not organising a giant family reunion yet because it's still dodgy out there. Maybe next month - I keep checking the figures. I'm not too terrified to go out, nor do I steam clean post, wash more than normal, or bleach the cat. So far simple precautions have kept me safe; just keep contact with other people to a minimum. You can't catch it unless someone gives it to you.

Dave

Ady102/08/2020 17:29:13
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3741 forum posts
519 photos

I just assume it's like measles

Half the time the person who gives it to you doesn't even know they've got it

Unless you hide from everyone, forever, it's going to get around to you at some point

Edit: More serious implications in the longer term from my perspective are social revolutions and government control issues which arise from this pandemic

We live in interesting times!

Edited By Ady1 on 02/08/2020 17:32:59

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