|colin hawes||16/07/2020 12:19:31|
|509 forum posts|
When garages weld on new sills do they remove the petrol tank or is this considered unnecessary? Colin
|Martin Kyte||16/07/2020 12:36:04|
1903 forum posts
Not sure, but full tanks are safer than empty.
|Alan Waddington 2||16/07/2020 12:39:12|
|503 forum posts|
Not usually, suppose it depends on what vehicle it is and where the tank is located etc.
Bit of a thing of the past now welding sills on, but did loads in days gone by, never took tank out and lived to tell the tale.
|not done it yet||16/07/2020 12:39:41|
|4747 forum posts|
Doesn't it depend on the car?
|Barrie Lever||16/07/2020 12:43:58|
|653 forum posts|
I have done restoration work on many cars over the years, got one on a slow burn at the moment and the fuel tanks have never been removed from the cars by any person welding.
The sills are a long way from the fuel tank on most cars.
In fact I think I have only once seen a fuel tank out of a car and I have done lots of work on cars.
|Dave Halford||16/07/2020 12:52:10|
|804 forum posts|
The tank my need shielding if it's plastic and you weld very close to it. Taking the battery leads and the alternator lead off is much more useful insurance on modern stuff.
|Chris Evans 6||16/07/2020 13:23:39|
1702 forum posts
Plus 1 for battery and alternator leads if you are electric welding. Of more concern with sills is the interior trim/carpets.
My Daughter had her old Metro welded by a garage to pass an MOT and it set the trim on fire.
|Nigel McBurney 1||16/07/2020 14:20:05|
717 forum posts
Many years ago ,a friend owned a garage,I got one of his men to do some "cash" welding on the front underside of my wifes morris traveller,I sat in the cars passenger seat with a bucket of water,then went up with the car ramp,with the welder under the car ,when things got a bit hot and smoky i sprinkled water on the hot bodywork, I always remember one thing I saw on that saturday afternoon,high up on the ramp i could see there was a mark 3 Cortina right over the back of the garage, a real cut and shut ,front an back were two different colours some doors and other panels were in further different colours.I had made up the sheet metal panel I wanted welded in place from good clean sheet metal formed up in a metal bender ,the welders comment " we dont see good material nicely bent like that,we usually cut up an oil drum and beat it flat to get some steel.
|Nick Clarke 3||16/07/2020 14:45:05|
812 forum posts
If fitting skin sills over the top of the originals (NOT good practice!) beware of foam filled sills and petrol pipes running through or alongside the sill.
|46 forum posts|
|Dave Halford||16/07/2020 15:51:42|
|804 forum posts|
A trigger spray set to fine mist works best.
|Peter G. Shaw||16/07/2020 16:22:10|
1121 forum posts
I used to have a Maxi which had a slight petrol leak. Wasn't much, but when I went for a new exhaust and the people approached with a lit welding torch, I slowly drifted outside, just in case you understand. Fortunately, nothing did happen, but it was something of a worry.
Peter G. Shaw
|J Hancock||16/07/2020 17:12:02|
|420 forum posts|
Those who remember the old BASEEFA standards for equipment mounted in hazardous atmospheres (EXd ) always wonder how car petrol tank level sensors were just a resistance wire and slider , in the tank.
Probably still are.
Yet never a mention of an explosion in normal use.
|Nicholas Wheeler 1||16/07/2020 19:35:30|
|334 forum posts|
Modern cars are even 'worse', because the electric fuel pump is installed inside the tank, and is often connected with uninsulated spade terminals. So that's many more million cars on the road with fitted even more dangerous parts that don't cause problems. Perhaps you worry too much?
|Andy Stopford||16/07/2020 20:09:13|
|33 forum posts|
I have a Fairway Taxi (the old-school London cab). Some previous owner, possibly the first, had it waxoyled in a totally futile attempt to prevent it rusting to bits.
I keep a small trigger spray full of water to hand during its yearly appointment with the oxy-acetylene torch, to snuff the inevitable waxoyl fires emanating from whatever box section is currently subject of attention (you don't need to be able to see the fire - just misting into the box section through some convenient opening towards the top does the job, a bit like putting out a chimney fire by throwing a cup or two of water on the hot grate).
Re. petrol tanks: in theory the mixture inside the tank is too rich to ignite. Furthermore, petrol is non-conductive (a dielectric I presume?), so I suppose there's no need to insulate the terminals of pumps, etc. - though the submerged pumps that Jaguar used on early Mark 10s were quite carefully earth bonded to the tank if I remember rightly.
|Oily Rag||16/07/2020 20:16:46|
117 forum posts
No problem with electrics in fuel tanks! You have all been watching too many Hollywood films where a car has a crash and explodes like an Exxon fuel tanker. Petrol is not that easy to light, as demonstrated to me on my first days induction working in a car factory. The instructor flipped a lighted match into a bucket of petrol and it just fizzled out. Apparently the most dangerous place for fire outbreak in a car factory was the trim shop with all the glue vapours, second most was the glycol anti freeze store, then the grease store and finally the petrol.
On the engine test beds we often had neat petrol dripping onto red hot exhaust manifolds! The biggest fire I saw was when a V8 engine broke a conrod and the sump oil exited the engine over the exhaust pipes, that was a fire!
To ignite petrol needs an air to fuel ratio of between 10:1 to 20:1 outside of this range it is pretty safe, that is why the electrics in a fuel tank (remember the fuel pump motors are brush type and liable to spark) are considered intrinsically safe.
|324 forum posts|
I too have only taken one fuel tank out - a 1972 Corvette with a history of running fine until it didn't.
|Nicholas Farr||16/07/2020 21:34:31|
2318 forum posts
Hi, there was a chap who run his own garage who was on the same advanced welding course that I was on and he had to drain and remove the petrol tank on a car, but only to get access to a part that needed welding which had to be done with oxy-acetylene, but he did have a proper pit to work in. After he removed the tank and put it a safe distance away, he proceeded to do the work, but no sooner he lit his blow torch he was engulfed in a fireball and suffered some vary serious burns and put him off work for a few weeks for recovery. Now you may think he had missed a pipe or something that had petrol in it, but it wasn't the case, in fact is was the petrol vapour lingering in the pit that flashed over. I think during the time of draining and removing the tank, he'd become used to the smell and could not smell it when he went back down into the pit, something he didn't forget about when he went back to work.
I've never taken a tank off when welding sills, but always did disconnect the battery and make sure trim etc. inside the car, couldn't catch fire. Haven't done such jobs for years and probably never will again.
Edited By Nicholas Farr on 16/07/2020 21:36:12
|Mike London||16/07/2020 21:59:32|
|13 forum posts|
|not done it yet||16/07/2020 22:47:54|
|4747 forum posts|
... To ignite petrol needs an air to fuel ratio of between 10:1 to 20:1 outside of this range it is pretty safe, ...
Too true! The fuel connector into the carb came adrift and spraying petrol over the engine, while at over 100mph, back in 1977. The only time I ever turned off the ignition key at that speed. Fuel was still boiling on the engine after stopping and baling out. The first thing I knew of a problem was when the car filled with petrol fumes. Lucky escape, which I put down to one hell of a draught and a cross-flow cylinder head keeping the fuel away from the sparks. A good job we were not smokers, either!
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